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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 August 2025
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Displaying 1169 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Tom Arthur

There has been further legislation since then, most recently in 2020.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Tom Arthur

We have already discussed at length some of the broader strategic measures that could be taken at national level around planning regulation and taxation. However, many of those matters will be specific to local areas. The local authority, in partnership and through engagement with businesses and the people who live in the community, is best placed to make those judgments.

We have a clear national direction of travel, for example through promoting active travel and 20-minute neighbourhoods. We also recognise that city centres and town centres offer something unique. We understand that retail sits in a spectrum from the functional to the experiential and that town and city centres offer an experience that is not just retail but is also leisure, entertainment and a whole range of activities, as well as often being pleasant places in which to be because of their built environment. Those are all things that town and city centres offer that are unique to their particular place.

As I said in my earlier answers, in order to drive footfall in town centres from outwith town centres, it is crucial to make the most of those assets to make coming into those centres an experience that people want to enjoy. Another important part is increasing residential populations and population density in our town centres and city centres. That provides us with a means to sustain more business locally—even just to provide the functional aspect of retail.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Tom Arthur

There are two points to make on the retail strategy. Our first priority will be to develop a fair work agreement. The committee will appreciate that powers over employment law are reserved, so there is no way for us to mandate or force through legislation on fair work. We do not have that power in the Scottish Parliament. We therefore use a range of measures in a range of areas, for example through the fair work first approach. There is a commitment in NSET to progress sectoral fair work agreements—

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Tom Arthur

I take the point, but there are still people who will walk or cycle into a town centre. It has to be recognised that people want to feel safe and secure when they walk into and out of town and city centres, but it is also very important to recognise that not everyone has the same experience in that respect. There are aspects to consider with regard to people with disabilities, and there is also a gendered aspect, which is very important and something that we are considering very carefully in our work on the draft national planning framework. We want our policies to take cognisance of such points.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Tom Arthur

I suppose that it comes back to how decisions on planning and investment are taken, and asking, “Can this or that take place in a town centre?” or “Can we make use of that town centre asset?” In other words, it is about using the town centre first principle. It might be useful if David Cowan gives a bit of historical background about how the town centre first principle came along, and says something about how it is being applied and the difference that it is making.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Tom Arthur

I will ask Catherine Brown to come in on the digital boost programme in a moment.

The industry leadership group for retail is going to look at what we can do, and there are two aspects to that. There is a commitment on action to look at the aspects of the national strategy for economic transformation that are particularly relevant to the retail sector, and that will be an early priority for the ILG. Uptake of digital and productivity are key to that and the ILG will be looking at those specifically.

The other point that you touched on was skills, and digital skills will be captured by the skills audit and subsequent action plan that we will undertake as part of the work of the industry leadership group. We need to seize the opportunities that digital provides, to make it as inclusive as possible so that the workforce has opportunities to participate. We are very alive to that, and that will be taken forward as part of the work of the industry leadership group.

Catherine Brown might have something further to add.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Tom Arthur

I will ask Catherine Brown to come in in a moment. We have been engaging with the UK Government on that. As you will be aware, there is a commitment to explore the introduction of a national online sales tax. However, we are conscious that it is an area that the UK Government has been consulting on. It would be sensible to get a clear understanding of the UK Government’s position on such a tax before seeking to introduce a tax here, and the need to do that will be well understood. Obviously, if we introduced a tax, that we would be done in a way that is consistent with our framework for tax.

I spoke about the principle that we must be clear about what the tax is for and the issue of engagement. It is a speculative matter at the moment, because we are still to see firm proposals from the UK Government, but my understanding is that it has said that any revenues would be hypothecated towards non-domestic rates relief. Clearly, we would have to see what would come out of that. Of course, we would expect any money to come to Scotland via the Barnett formula as usual, and it would obviously be part of the budget process to decide how best to allocate that. However, we are very much getting ahead of ourselves here, because we need to see exactly what the UK Government will bring forward.

I ask Catherine whether she wants to add anything to that.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Tom Arthur

I will make two points. First, there is a commitment in “Housing to 2040” to undertake an empty homes audit. That is under way and should be completed by early next year, after which consideration will be given to further actions, including funding.

The second point concerns the planning system. In the consultation on permitted development rights, we are seeking views on including, for example, residential conversions. I do not think that there is strong stakeholder support for that, but we are keen to take views on it, because another aspect of the matter is the powers within the Planning (Scotland) Act 2019 on masterplan consent areas. Those can allow planning authorities to create planning regimes that are bespoke to specific areas within the planning authority area, in order to simplify planning processes.

We are considering funding in the empty homes audit, and we are considering what funding might come after it. On regulatory matters—that is, the planning system—we are undertaking the permitted development rights consultation and there is a commitment to commencing the masterplan consent areas provisions in the Planning (Scotland) Act 2019. Data gathering and analysis are under way. The next step will be to consider funding.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Tom Arthur

I take that point. I also point to the provisions of the draft national planning framework. I am conscious that it is a draft document and that the public consultation and parliamentary scrutiny have concluded, so I do not want to get into it in too much detail. However, the direction of travel is there: compact design, 20-minute neighbourhoods, limiting out-of-town development and taking a town centre first approach are all in the draft NPF.

We already include in the guidance for local housing strategies the need for the local authority to demonstrate how it is using the town centre first principle. Indeed, updated guidance on the strategic housing investment plans will be published shortly. It will ask local authorities to include a summary of investment priorities for housing in town centres within local housing strategies and SHIPs in NPF4, across a range of areas.

To complement my earlier points about the empty homes audit and PDR masterplan consent areas, I note that there is alignment on the need to increase the density of populations within town centres, as you mentioned. The key to realising our ambitions for town and city centres is more people living in them so that we have the density of population that is required to sustain commerce within towns and city centres. I recognise that as being an absolute priority.

The point is—I know that you made a similar point at an earlier meeting, Ms Hyslop—that we move away from the deficit model and look instead at opportunity and at what towns and city centres can do. They are the solution to so many of our problems; more people living in them will be an absolute necessity if we are to realise the ambition to have 20-minute neighbourhoods, which will be essential if we are to meet our ambitions to reduce greenhouse gas emissions.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 15 June 2022

Tom Arthur

The key point is that every town is different. It is not so much about what is done, specifically, on each project, but about how we go about it. That is why the place-based approach is fundamental.

Take, for example, the transformative impact that the great tapestry of Scotland is having on Galashiels. That was a strategic investment. A place-based approach was used with that and the transport interchange, and those things are having a positive impact.

I have not had the opportunity to go yet, but I know that you will have been to Midsteeple Quarter. I am going to visit that area during the next few weeks. There are examples around Scotland that are—if not completely unique or sui generis—distinct to their area and recognise the assets that particular towns and communities have and work around them.

I am conscious that we were in the high noon of planning in the decades following the second world war, and that during that period we could have standardisation and a uniform approach to regeneration. However, ultimately, that regeneration was done to communities rather than with them. That is the key difference in the place-based approach. We have to do things in partnership with communities and have local buy-in. That has to take place across a range of different areas, including local community groups taking on assets; increasing the number of pluralistic business models, whether they are employee ownerships or co-operatives; and greater engagement with the planning system. That could be done using local place plans and by strengthening community planning partnerships to ensure that the public, private and third sectors are working collaboratively. There is a need for a place-based approach and collaboration rather than some grand scheme that is developed remotely and imposed on a community. We have to work with communities and recognise their assets.

It is vital to have a way of working that involves engaging people and asking them what they want for their town and its town centre. David Cowan, do you want to add anything to that?