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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 August 2025
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Displaying 1169 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

I can appreciate that there will be a range of views but, along with seeking to mitigate the risk of waste tourism, we have always wanted to provide a degree of certainty and stability for the sector as well. Furthermore, we have a clear target towards the end of 2025 and our approach on tax policy is consistent with that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

I clarify that the money is capital and has not been allocated through the spring budget revision that you refer to.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

As I say, the money would be classified as capital expenditure to support the existing wide-ranging variety of work within the health portfolio. I cannot provide you with a line-by-line list of all of the various expenditure that is classed as capital expenditure within the health service.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

Clearly, as I touched on earlier, we will have an exceptionally challenging set of circumstances around capital over the medium term, which the committee appreciates. Those circumstances form the context in which decisions on future capital projects鈥攏ot just in the health service, but more widely鈥攁re considered.

The budget, of course, relates to the current financial year. This relates to ongoing activity that is part of the capital expenditure of the health service. I can appreciate the question about perception about money being allocated, but it is important to make the distinction between what is happening within this financial year鈥攕upporting ongoing NHS capital expenditure that covers a range of areas, which, I am sure, the committee appreciates鈥攁nd what we are looking at from 2024-25 going forward, in the context of the capital constraints under which we will be operating.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

I make the point on allocation and budgets that at the outset we allocate full amounts, but clearly there are developments, as the year progresses. There can be underspends, slippage or targeted savings, which can free up additional capacity. That applies to resource and capital and reflects the usual routine in-year budget management.

The challenges that we are facing were, of course, set out by the Deputy First Minister in the letter that she sent to the committee in advance of the UK autumn fiscal event. It is important to make the distinction that we are not in a situation where budgets are being set with some funding unallocated, but as we progress through the financial year, owing to the dynamics that I have referred to we will always seek to ensure, when resource or capital become available, that funding is effectively allocated to support the in-year position across public services.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

There have certainly been changes from the position that we were in two years ago. Of course, the challenges persist; we have to contend with higher costs and the challenges that come with them, as a consequence of the period of high inflation that we have had. Inflation is still high, by historical standards. That presents ongoing challenges, as do the other factors that we have touched on.

We are committed to working within the limited flexibilities that we have, and to ensuring that we can work constructively and collaboratively to deliver capital projects. However, we have to set out very clearly the challenges that we are facing and their consequences for the delivery timescales of various projects.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

As part of the progress that we are making towards the fiscal framework, there are things to do with baselining, for example, that reflect the opportunity that we have through that direct relationship between the Scottish Government and local government.

Of course, as has been touched on, the broader context in which we operate is determined by the UK Government. I know that issues such as multiyear funding settlements are routinely raised by committees and members across Parliament, but, again, the challenges that we face will ultimately come down to decisions taken by the UK Government. We have been through what has been, economically and fiscally, a quite volatile period, but in the context of a politically quite volatile period for the UK Parliament and Government, with changes of personnel at the most senior levels. Again, that creates challenges, and there will always have to be a degree of realism about what can actually be achieved.

It is important to remember that, notwithstanding the Scottish Government鈥檚 aspirations around Scotland鈥檚 constitutional future, ours is ultimately a devolved Government within the United Kingdom, and the decisions taken by the UK Government will be predominant in the context within which we operate. Any of the work that we seek to carry out as part of our relationship with local government, and indeed with other partners, must always be cognisant of that context within which we operate. The level of discretion and autonomy that is available to an independent state is not available to the Scottish Government as a devolved Administration. That is not a political point鈥擨 am just stating the facts of the matter.

I come back to the earlier point that improving the way in which decisions are taken within the United Kingdom, the amount of information that is provided and the timelines would be in the interests of the Scottish Government and, indeed, our counterpart devolved Administrations.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

Let me take that away and speak to pensions officials about it, because I do not want to give you an off-the-cuff answer. I would rather consider it in more detail. If you are happy for me to do it, I will speak to pensions officials, write back to you directly and copy the committee into that correspondence.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

Indeed.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 5 March 2024

Tom Arthur

That is interesting, because one of the things that has emerged in previous years is a question about provisional outturn and why money was not spent in the previous year. It will be spent; it will have been carried forward. If we were to spend money in March rather than in April, just for the sake of it, that would be quite inefficient. That would be allocation of capital and resource spending simply for presentational purposes when the accounts are published. That is, obviously, something that we avoid.

Particularly during the pandemic, we sometimes had significant funding through consequentials coming late, which posed challenges. For example, we saw higher amounts in the reserve being carried forward. All of that was discretionary spend; all of it was applied and no discretionary spend was lost.

You made a point about not having certainty; of course, that leads to challenges. I recognise the committee鈥檚 particular interest in public service reform and I know that you are very engaged on that. Is what happens the optimal, efficient and effective way to manage the wider UK finances between the UK Government and devolved Administrations? I do not think so. I am not here to criticise; I think that the matter is worthy of further consideration.

If the committee has views on that, I will, as I said, be very keen to engage, because I feel that there must be a better way to do things. I recognise there could be trade-offs and that there can be benefits from other approaches鈥攚hich might also come with particular challenges. I note the particular points about having to manage our in-year position with the tight constraints on what we can carry forward and late provision of information. That is obviously not the case only for the Scottish Government鈥攊t will be the case for all the devolved Administrations, and in the relationships between the Treasury and other Whitehall departments. It is a broader issue that ultimately reflects the fact that we are still in the position of the process being driven by the UK Government鈥檚 approach.

10:30