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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 11 August 2025
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Displaying 836 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

A lot of the points that I was going to ask about have already been covered by the convener and by Michelle Thomson, but I want to summarise some of the points that you have made, minister, and to discuss some of the evidence that we took last week.

I will start with a bit of a daft-laddie question. Is there any statutory requirement to take the bill through now? I know that it comes under the Smith commission and the Scotland Act 2016, but is there a statutory requirement to pass it now?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I will pass back to the convener, because he probably has more questions to ask, but I will say that I do not see a huge amount that is advantageous in this legislation unless the rate is changed. I am not suggesting that I would advocate that, but it seems to me that, unless that differential is used, the administrative and other issues are not of great benefit.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 19 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

The lack of data, which we all appreciate but do not necessarily lay at anybody鈥檚 door in particular, has already been pointed out. There are also the costs of setting up the bill, and there is uncertainty over how it will impact on the block grant adjustment. It is likely that the bill will cost money from the Scottish budget. Why take the bill through now, when all those uncertainties are there?

10:30  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

I want to ask about the financial implications of the proposals. It seems that we do not have specific data from HMRC on the amount of money that is raised from Scotland by the UK levy. This committee and others have had a number of issues in getting data from HMRC. Do you find it surprising that it is not able to give a more accurate picture? The financial memorandum states that the Scottish Fiscal Commission estimates the Scottish share of the UK aggregates levy to be around 拢60 million at the moment, rising to 拢61 million in 2025-26. Do you think that that is accurate?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

You highlighted the issue of exports to England resulting in money being collected under the UK aggregates levy. You talked about the percentage of exports to Europe. Are those exports covered by that levy?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

The Scottish Government website鈥擨 do not look at it every day鈥攔ightly highlights that the bill will mean more money being raised in Scotland. However, it is not necessarily the case that more money will be raised in, or will come to, Scotland; it is just about how it will be raised. Are there any benefits, apart from that tailoring ability? That might require differentials that might impact more widely.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Going back to the compliance issue that the convener and Liz Smith have raised, I appreciate that you cannot give a exact number for that, but you have said a little about certain areas. I think that Mr McVey talked about farmers perhaps providing aggregates under the radar. I can assure you that, if 100 tonnes of material were to be taken off my land, it would be pretty obvious to folk. All the same, we are still not talking about huge numbers. My understanding is that, if 100 tonnes were taken, the tax would be 拢200. I would be interested to find out whether that would be worth the risk for someone.

Everything so far seems to have been very anecdotal, so I wonder whether you have any idea of the split between some of the smaller non-compliance issues and some of the larger ones. As the convener rightly pointed out, this is not a big country, and quarries are pretty obvious; they cannot be moved or hidden easily. Do you have any idea of the balance in that respect?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Depending on the type of community it is in, a quarry鈥檚 operations will have impact and people will know about it. It might not be seen from the road, but the trucks will be seen.

On that point, why do you think that the industry will work with you and that you will be able to have an impact and be more successful in dealing with that than was the case under the previous UK aggregates levy?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

Yes.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Aggregates Tax and Devolved Taxes Administration (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 12 March 2024

Jamie Halcro Johnston

That would make it harder to replace a UK aggregates levy, of which Scotland gets a share. Through the new legislation, the money will be raised in Scotland, but it will be reflected in the budget. How can we be sure that the bill will be of any real benefit, unless there is a difference in the amount that is raised? A higher rate in Scotland than in England would have implications for Scottish businesses.