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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 23 June 2025
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Displaying 5863 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Finlay Carson

That opens up some questions about what additional science-based evidence was introduced between order number 1 and order number 2.

Jim Fairlie would like to ask a final and very short question, and then we will need to move on.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Finlay Carson

Okay. Cabinet secretary, I thank you and your officials for staying with us for this extended period. We really appreciate it. As you can understand, there are a lot of questions to be asked.

Agenda item 2 relates to motion S6M-03543, in the name of Rachael Hamilton, which asks the committee to agree to recommend that the instrument be annulled.

I invite Rachael Hamilton to set out her reasons for lodging the motion. The cabinet secretary will have an opportunity to comment and can bring in her officials as necessary. We will debate the motion formally at item 3.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Finlay Carson

As no member of the committee wishes to ask Rachael Hamilton any questions, I turn to the cabinet secretary.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Finlay Carson

As the cabinet secretary has admitted, the process has been flawed from the start, and I believe that it is still flawed at the finish. The unprecedented numbers of responses about the first order that was laid, and the subsequent very short timescale before the second order was laid, are of concern, and there is a lack of transparency over what factors contributed to the orders being changed. We have heard of concerns about scientific evidence, data collection and monitoring, a lack of appreciation of the impact of the closures on socioeconomic aspects and environmental safety, and proportionality. One fisherman suggested that the comment about a short-term economic impact on local fishers showed an “almost flippant attitude”.

I have concerns that, given the new Bute house agreement, this will not be the last order of this type that we see in front of us. On that basis, there needs to be some recognition that, along with other sectors, whether that is oil and gas, transport or farming, a transition to a more sustainable way of fishing needs to be compensated for or supported in some way. There is a complete lack of appreciation of the impact on fishers as they try to do the best thing, which is to create sustainable fisheries. On that basis, I will support the motion to annul.

11:15  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Finlay Carson

On that point, I presume that, if the instrument was to be annulled, the Government would need to lay another instrument. Are you suggesting that, if the instrument was to be annulled, you would walk away from protecting cod altogether?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Finlay Carson

I have no comment to make on that.

We will move on. The question is, that motion S6M-03543, in the name of Rachael Hamilton, be agreed to. Are we agreed?

Members: No.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Finlay Carson

I now bring in Jackie Baillie.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Finlay Carson

I am afraid that we appear to have lost our witness.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Finlay Carson

Cabinet secretary, I am a bit confused, because we have had two revisions. An instrument was laid that was then changed. Between changing it and consulting again, what scientific evidence did you get that was not political—that was not a result of the Bute house agreement? I fail to see what scientific evidence changed in that short time.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 9 March 2022

Finlay Carson

Is it a point of order?