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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 1 July 2025
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Displaying 5898 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

At stage 1, the bill was voted through unanimously on the basis that it aims to improve animal welfare while continuing to allow dogs to be used to control predators. Throughout the weeks and the months of evidence taking, not once did we hear any issues about animal welfare and rough shooting鈥擨 believe that not one piece of evidence on that came before the committee.

I think that there is an unintended consequence of including rabbits in the definition of wild mammal, which is a knock-on effect on rough shooting. Given the response to our additional call for evidence, there are concerns that section 6 does not fit the bill, either for those who wish to continue rough shooting or for those who wish any sort of country sports to be stopped. It does neither and could potentially open a loophole.

Has the bill team considered possible amendments that would address those concerns? That might involve a better definition of rough shooting and excluding it. Alternatively, have you considered other measures that would clear up what looks like a bit of a boorach at the moment?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Would you describe an impact on rough shooting as an unintended consequence of the legislation?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Was your understanding of rough shooting complete enough to allow you to understand exactly what the implications of the two-dog limit would be on rough shooting, or is that something that has developed since the stage 1 evidence? Is your understanding of rough shooting better now than what it was initially?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Okay.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Did you have discussions with Police Scotland on rough shooting prior to the evidence that the minister gave when the concerns were raised?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Has the minister considered any amendments to address Police Scotland鈥檚 concerns?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Do members agree to have a further stakeholder engagement session?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

I am sorry but, at the moment, we are just considering whether we want to take further evidence.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Petition

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

Our next item of business is consideration of petition PE1758, on ending greyhound racing in Scotland. Members will note that the Scottish Animal Welfare Commission has written to us to say that it wishes to take more time to consider the issue of a ban on greyhound racing and expects to come to a decision next February. On that basis, are members content to delay further consideration until the SAWC has come to a view on the matter?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 16 November 2022

Finlay Carson

That is not at all how rough shooting works in practice. What I described was far from a driven shoot; I think that it was suggested that it was like grouse shooting or fox shooting. That is not the case. I should declare an interest. I have taken part in rough shoots, but I do not have a dog that flushes animals. I would stand and shoot, so it is not always the case that the shooter is in control of the dogs. What often happens is that there are four or five people who beat and who have dogs for flushing. That is their day out and that is what they do.

There might be two or three guns who do not have ownership of or responsibility for the dogs that will take part. In that case, who is illegally hunting? Is it the guy with the gun or the beaters with the dogs? This is a grey area.

I was certainly not talking about a driven shoot, but about a rough shoot. Activity that could be described as a driven shoot could include beaters working a wood with dogs that those who are shooting have no ownership of or responsibility for.