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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 13 July 2025
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Displaying 5898 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Future Agriculture Policy

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Finlay Carson

How is that negotiation going to go? Are you going to go down to Westminster every year—or every five years, if we get multi-year payments—to explain the Scottish Government priorities to spend that money and ask for £700 million in the next year? I do not understand how we can work that out.

It is a bit like the block grant. Westminster decides how much to spend on the national health service, a Barnett formula consequential then comes into the Scottish block grant, and the Scottish Government has to decide whether to spend that on the NHS or on something else. What is the formula? Given that agricultural policy is devolved, how is it going to work when Westminster delivers a budget that we want to have ring fenced for agriculture?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Future Agriculture Policy

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Finlay Carson

You will be pleased to hear that we hope to get representatives of the supermarkets before us at some point soon.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Future Agriculture Policy

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Finlay Carson

I am still confused, given how different agriculture is in England and in Scotland, about how you could negotiate a settlement with Westminster when agriculture policy is devolved, but we can come back to that. It is a long discussion. I still do not understand what your ask is going to be in two or three years’ time or what you are going to base that on.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Future Agriculture Policy

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Finlay Carson

Okay.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Future Agriculture Policy

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Finlay Carson

Good morning, everyone, and welcome to the ninth meeting in 2023 of the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee. I remind all members who are using electronic devices to switch them to silent, please.

Our one item of business today is pre-legislative scrutiny of Scotland’s future agriculture policy. We will take evidence from NFU Scotland. I welcome to the meeting Jonnie Hall, who is general manager and director of policy at the NFUS. Thank you for coming to the meeting, Jonnie.

I must put on record that I am a bit disappointed that, despite our having invited other conveners from different sectors, the NFUS has sent only you. That does not put your witness quality anywhere in doubt, but, given that we have little time to consider the agriculture bill and that we have a very busy schedule, it is somewhat disappointing that we do not have conveners from committees that deal with livestock or less favoured areas, which is a particular area of interest to us.

That said, we have 90 minutes, and we have a range of questions. I will kick off with a question that is fairly straightforward but broad. What would the NFUS like to see in the upcoming agriculture bill? Are there any red lines that you would like to put on the record today?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Future Agriculture Policy

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Finlay Carson

Okay. Thanks.

You mentioned less favoured areas, coupled support and conditionality. What do you want to see in the bill? We expect that it will be very much a framework bill. As you have said, it will provide powers and the ability for payments to be made, but is there anything that you want to see in it?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Future Agriculture Policy

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Finlay Carson

I will move on to a couple of supplementaries, the first of which is a brief one from me. When we hear Chris Stark of the Climate Change Committee suggesting that we need to reduce meat consumption and cattle numbers, and when non-governmental organisations come to the committee every week and tell us that we need to reduce stock numbers and outputs, do you think that you are winning the argument? If not, what are you doing to ensure that the whole story about critical mass is getting out there? Indeed, what can the agriculture bill do to ensure that we maintain the critical mass that Jim Walker has said we have already reached? If we lose any more of our suckler cows, that is it. We are at the cliff edge. How can the agriculture bill help with that situation?

11:00  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Future Agriculture Policy

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Finlay Carson

Based on what? Scottish Government priorities?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Future Agriculture Policy

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Finlay Carson

But how do you quantify that? What is your ask? Would you go to the Treasury and saying, “Can we have £620 million, index linked, over the next few years?â€

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Future Agriculture Policy

Meeting date: 22 March 2023

Finlay Carson

There are about six supplementaries. I know that Rachael Hamilton has to leave the meeting at quarter to 11, so I will bring in Beatrice Wishart, then Rachael Hamilton and then Ariane Burgess.