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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 20 December 2025
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Displaying 6917 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

You probably hit the nail on the head when you said that the communication has not been as good as it should have been. When the Government’s bill team appeared before us—it seems like a lifetime ago now—the only example that we were given as to why the power was needed related to the ability to use digitised documents as part of EIAs. We were not given any other reasons why the power was needed.

The Government has quite a bit of work to do before stage 2 to communicate to the NGOs why the power is required and what safeguards will be in place. At the moment, some of them are minded to believe that we should remove part 2 of the bill altogether.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

Stewart Cunningham, can you set out exactly what the new regulation that was brought out in 2019, which Mark Ruskell referred to—regulation 9D—does? If it does not give the flexibility that we were informed that it gives, what does it do that the proposed regulations need to enhance?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

We absolutely need to bottom that out. I understand what you are saying—that not every single little thing should, or can, be done through primary legislation. However, given that there is no parent act for habitats regulations or EIA legislation in Scotland, because those things derive from EU policies, enacting a single power such as the Government is seeking to include in the bill could open the way to a whole range of substantive changes without adequate scrutiny. That is where the concerns come from.

11:00  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

Thank you. It was remiss of me not to mention that we have been joined by Mercedes Villalba, who will ask some questions towards the end of the session. Welcome, Mercedes.

I also missed out Tim Eagle, who has a supplementary question on ensuring that public bodies contribute. Tim, I will bring you in now.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

Thank you. That is helpful.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

The implication of that would be that statutory biodiversity targets for offshore regions could not be set by the Scottish Government.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

On the marine environment side, it is obvious that Scotland has different goals and targets from the rest of the UK in relation to good environmental status. At the moment, that is incredibly important up here. How will all those things be brought together? You have said how the system can work for the inshore regions, but how will that come together with the system for the offshore regions? That is important. Only last week, or the week before, we were considering salmon farming in the offshore environment, where there are offshore wind developments and so on. How do you foresee those things coming together?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

I asked my question because, at the moment, there is no route for you to set biodiversity targets for the offshore environment—you can do that only for inshore waters.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

In that case, I will have the pleasure of asking the last question, which is about flexibility and accountability.

You wrote to us to confirm that the Scottish ministers would lay any part 2 regulations under the affirmative procedure when the content of the regulations would make substantial change. That was the direction of my earlier question—I was asking about the difference between substantial and insignificant changes. Substantial changes require greater levels of scrutiny.

What criteria will you use to inform decisions about what is substantial and what is not? Why are those criteria not set out in the bill to give us the comfort of knowing that, as you said, Parliament will get the opportunity to fully scrutinise any substantial changes?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

Welcome back. We move on to our third panel on the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill. We will take evidence on part 4 of the bill, and for this discussion I welcome Jim Fairlie, the Minister for Agriculture and Connectivity. I welcome back Leia Fitzgerald, head of the nature division bill unit at the Scottish Government, and we also have Sam Turner, team leader of the wildlife management team; Brodie Wilson, policy manager of the wildlife management team; and Hazel Reilly, solicitor, all from the Scottish Government.

We have up to 90 minutes for this evidence session. I remind everyone to try to keep questions and responses as succinct as possible, to allow us to get through all our questions.

I will kick off with a nice straightforward question, minister—you will be pleased to hear that. Section 10 of the bill updates the aims and purposes of deer management to include safeguarding the “public interest”, but that term is not defined in the bill. In an online deer practitioner meeting that was held two weeks ago, there were considerable differences of opinion on what that public interest might be. Do you intend to define the term “public interest” in secondary legislation or the code of practice?