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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 August 2025
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Displaying 5898 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

Good morning, and welcome to the 19th meeting in 2025 of the Rural Affairs and Islands Committee. Before we begin, I remind everyone who is using an electronic device to switch it to silent. We have received apologies from Elena Whitham.

The first item on the agenda is an evidence session with the Scottish Government as part of our consideration of the Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill at stage 1.

This week, we will conclude evidence gathering on parts 1, 2 and 4 of the bill before we move to part 3 of the bill next week. To discuss parts 1 and 2 of the bill, I welcome to the meeting Gillian Martin, Acting Cabinet Secretary for Net Zero and Energy. I also welcome from the Scottish Government: Leia Fitzgerald, head of the nature division bill unit; Lisa McCann, head of the biodiversity unit; and Joan McHutchison, solicitor.

You will be pleased to hear that we have allocated about two hours to discuss parts 1 and 2, and we have quite a few questions to get through. I ask members, the cabinet secretary and officials to be as succinct as possible. Before we begin, I ask the cabinet secretary to give a short opening statement.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

You are saying that there is an urgency, but there is no indication as to what the targets might be or when they will be implemented. Should that timeframe not have been drawn up in parallel with the bill? I know that this is a framework bill and that secondary legislation is the right place to include requirements for targets and reporting, which will change. However, to take one example, commencement of the Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Act 2024 did not happen until a year after the bill was passed. If the situation is urgent and we are looking to halt the decline by 2030, should the bill not include more than just the ability to set statutory targets? Should it not have more meat on the bones to ensure that the urgency is reflected?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

That takes us nicely to a question from Beatrice Wishart.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

Do you expect any other advice to come forward relating to targets between now and the end of the bill process?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

A lot of data is collected at the moment and a lot of that comes from the private sector, including marine data from fishermen and data from members of Scottish Land & Estates who are looking at biodiversity from their perspective. There are some data standards, but the data is not all collected and published in the same way. I do not think that it is unreasonable to suggest that, in order for you to get the best value out of that data, some capacity will have to be created to bring it all together and ensure that it is all published in the same format. Baselining, whether that is of LiDAR data or data that is collected from private organisations, will be critical.

Will you reflect on the potential cost of that before we get to stage 2? We know that the data is there, but it will all have to be brought together to ensure that it is in an easily understood format.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

Sorry, Tim. I interrupted your questions.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

You are responsible for good environmental status in the marine environment.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

I suppose that I am looking at the practicalities of the situation. Will the UK targets that are set under the Environment Act 2021 apply to the offshore waters? We know about the inshore waters鈥攊t is your targets that apply there. Will the targets for offshore waters be set under the Environment Act 2021?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

I am asking whether the biodiversity targets for offshore waters will be set under the UK Environment Act 2021.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Natural Environment (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 4 June 2025

Finlay Carson

Okay鈥攖hat answers that question.