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I will make my points in winding up. I did not want to interrupt, because I was interested to hear the full description in what the member had to say. I accept what Gillian Mackay has had to say on this specific subject, but my argument remains: there are already powers in the bill to extend the zones. That is important, because we do not know how the bill will shape itself and develop as we go forward. Buildings change—they change size and become smaller or larger—so having one size of 200m where that is not necessary will capture people in unintended consequences for those—

Yes.

Amendment 56 makes it a prohibited behaviour to film a person within a designated safe access zone and outlines penalties for such a breach. It is a focused amendment that comes into effect if a person is prevented, impeded or harassed in gaining access to abortion services within the buffer zone, or their decision is influenced by filming within that area.

It is worth sharing with the committee that the amendment is similar to a provision in the Abortion Services (Safe Access Zones) Act (Northern Ireland) 2023, which prevents intimidation or harassment of a person through filming within the safe access zone.

Furthermore, I bring members’ attention to the nuance between my amendment and amendment 57, in the name of my colleague Meghan Gallacher, which makes it an offence to record a person in a safe access zone. My amendment focuses on the effects of filming rather than the act of it. As it outlines, effects include

“influencing ... preventing or impeding another person from accessing, providing or facilitating the provision of abortion services,”

and

“causing harassment, alarm or distress to another person”

who is accessing or providing abortion services.

I see both amendments as important, and I look forward to hearing the minister’s view on them.

Similar to Gillian Mackay’s amendment 39, my amendment 50 would require ministers to publish a report on the effectiveness of safe access zones each year. As per an earlier amendment of mine, it draws on the example of the Northern Ireland legislation. Former member of the Legislative Assembly Clare Bailey described how she and her colleagues approached the bill, which was attractive to my Scottish Parliament colleagues and seemed to be an elegant solution to what we are trying to achieve here.

I believe that amendment 50 would improve Parliament’s ability to scrutinise the effectiveness of the bill and increase accountability. However, I recognise that Gillian Mackay has pointed out that her amendment 39 requires the report to be laid before Parliament.

Gillian Mackay has also pointed out that her amendment 39 has a different timescale, being over two years rather than a year, as in Tess White’s and my amendments. Gillian Mackay’s amendment takes a broader view and is not as specific as mine. Considering the fact that the bill seeks to ensure that women can access healthcare without fear and harassment, I believe that my amendment 50 is more targeted to the outcomes.

I thank Gillian Mackay for saying that she will work with my colleague Tess White and me on the issue, if her amendment 39 is agreed to. I believe that Ms White’s amendment is complementary to both amendments, but it seeks to gather wider information on a broader set of metrics. I hope that we can achieve something that is positive to ensure that the bill works.

Finally, the point that Gillian Mackay made about the timescale of two years is slightly contradictory to what she was trying to argue previously about the need to be fleet of foot when recognising, extending or reducing the zone measurements. We need to be live to the situation. If the reporting mechanism provision was for a year, rather than two years, it would show Parliament the picture on the ground at the time, but I understand Gillian Mackay’s comments on being reflexive.

It has been noted in research that the degree of emotional distress is not proportionate to the act of filming, so making the offence explicit in the bill is really important. Minister, even if you are taking a broad-brush approach to offences that might cover such activity—and I would highlight what Meghan Gallacher said and quote your comment that it is “likely” to be covered—it is still important that any act that disproportionately impacts on women’s privacy and causes them to seek other treatments, or to defer treatment, be covered. The amendments should be considered in the round, because of their selective approach to an activity that should be prohibited specifically. I would be grateful if you could work with us on that.

I want to listen to Gillian Mackay’s summary, but could I intervene?

At the Queen Elizabeth university hospital, there are other facilities around the specific area that are encompassed in the zone, and I have felt as though I do not have enough information to reassure me that there would be no unintended consequences. I appreciate the work that the committee has done on the bill—you have obviously looked at it very closely. However, I felt that I needed more information on unintended consequences and proportionality, which is why I lodged amendment 43.

From the outset, I have been concerned that women have been put off accessing healthcare, which could be a danger to their health. That has been described to me by the charity Back Off Scotland.

I want to speak to Carol Mochan’s comment. There has always been an argument that a purpose clause is not necessary but, on Carol Mochan’s point, her own party brings forward purpose clauses in the context of other bills and argues that they are the right thing to do to make the bill clear. I know that the bill has been controversial among many, and I merely seek to bring the focus towards women’s health because we have been in danger of letting women down with regard to their health because of this situation.

On the minister’s point about legal concern, will she work with me to get the wording right if she has concerns, specifically about the reference to

“fear of intimidation or harassment”?

I think that a purpose clause would clarify the point that we are trying to make, namely the need to strengthen women’s health and access to women’s health services.

I am content with the cabinet secretary’s response to my concerns. I just hope that monitoring and evaluation will be included within the lens of the rural support plan to ensure that we get to the outcomes that we are trying to achieve and that the plan is effective. I will not press amendment 185.

Amendment 185, by agreement, withdrawn.

Actually, convener, I have made a mistake. Is it possible to not move amendment 195? I am happy to carry on if not.