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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 August 2025
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Displaying 1959 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Therefore, there might be an unintended consequence in relation to someone who does not have a criminal conviction—I suppose that you might just say that that is life. How are vulnerable women protected in that circumstance? I am new to the committee today, but I have seen no evidence whatever that the false declaration issue has been looked at in the process.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Rachael Hamilton

When I asked the members of the previous panel about the Cass review, which is now in its interim stage, they suggested that we invite Hilary Cass to give evidence on the lack of routine and consistent data collection, which means that it is not possible to accurately track outcomes for children and young people, or to define the service models and workforce needs that are required for a more dignified approach to service delivery.

Should the GRA reform that we are considering be paused until we hear such evidence, get those views and receive the review’s full report? As far as I can see, we have not looked at data gathering in relation to the bill and the implications of not having that sort of data collection in Scotland. Catherine, would you like to start?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Would it be possible to reference for the committee the international comparisons that you have looked at with regard to sexual and reproductive rights, and to give details of how they cross over with the Cass review on children and young people? Were you talking specifically about education in Scotland or were you referencing an international comparison?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Rachael Hamilton

My question, which was for the panel in general and not Catherine Murphy specifically, was about delivering better services. The issue that I am interested in is not specifically about sexual and reproductive rights and the education of children; it is about how we gather data so that we can provide a really good service, and the workforce implications that might come from that.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Rachael Hamilton

It is really about the interim Cass report. The previous panel suggested that the committee should hear from Dr Hilary Cass, because her review has highlighted that there are issues around consistent and routine data collection, which have workforce and service delivery implications. Do you agree that the GRA reform should be paused so that we can take the report of that review into account when it is published?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I can explain. The review examines the increase in the number of referrals of children and young people to gender identity services in England. My question is specifically related to how, if that increase is reflected in Scotland, those services can be delivered in the right way and we have the workforce to deliver them. Sandy, would you like to come in?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Interests

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Thank you, convener. I have no interests to declare.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Rachael Hamilton

That is quite timely. I think that I need a lie down. Susan Smith mentioned the Cass review, and it looks like there is a suggestion that some of today’s panel members would say, “Look at the Cass review and pause GRA reform here in Scotland.â€

I have looked at the Cass review. It highlights the lack of routine and consistent data collection, which means that it is not possible to track outcomes for children and young people. Malcolm Clark specifically mentioned making sure that there is more therapeutic care and defining that service model, and—I suppose—the workforce implications.

I invite anyone to expand on that. You have all had your fair share of speaking, but who would like to kick off? Perhaps Susan Smith will, as she mentioned it.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I am horrified to learn that we are not conducting data collection so that we can give the best services to children and young people. If the reforms are accepted by Parliament, we are, as you say, putting the cart before the horse. How can workforce implications be taken into account and services be provided if we do not have the evidence and do not know how many people there are and what circumstances they are experiencing?

Convener, I am really shocked that the committee has not had the opportunity to get into the detail of that.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 31 May 2022

Rachael Hamilton

So do you believe that the process should be paused until we consider the Cass review, when that is published?