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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 August 2025
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Displaying 1959 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I do not have the reference to the section, but it is in the bill. The bill prohibits the involvement of more than two dogs in an accepted activity, but it envisages that more than two dogs could be involved and that “reasonable steps” can then be taken to ensure that more than two dogs cannot come together “to form a pack”. I am talking about the bit about dogs coming together as an unintended consequence.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I, too, am confused about this. When it comes to people carrying out hare coursing on land without permission, would it not have been simpler to have kept the existing exclusion for rabbits but required landowner permission? Under the bill, if a hare courser was caught, would they be able to use that defence of hunting for something else?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

What about sheep? How would you enclose them?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I will try my best, convener.

To pick up on Jenni Minto’s point and what you just said, Leia, 11,000 out of the 30,000 deer that are shot in Scotland through Scottish Government schemes are shot at night, with lamps. How do police look at that activity in terms of injury? With all the forests that we have, we need to control deer. How do the police monitor that, particularly if in only one season out of a whole year there is ample sight to ensure that there is no injury?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

NatureScot could grow arms and legs, which could be a really positive conduit to ensuring that we increase biodiversity. As you know, curlew numbers are in huge decline. The Government could consider that to be part of a long-term environmental project, particularly because there is to be a change in support for agriculture and farmers will be paid to be conservationists—not that they are not conservationists now.

I feel that what I have heard from Leia Fitzgerald suggests an almost discriminatory approach to animal welfare and biodiversity protection.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Are you saying that controlling foxes to protect ground-nesting birds such as curlews and lapwings is not part of a long-term project in the way that stoat control would be?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I want to pick up on something that Hugh Dignon said to Jim Fairlie. You mentioned an appeals process, but there is no provision in the bill for that. You may argue that it will be part of the consultation to do with licensing. However, the financial memorandum says:

“There are no costs on other bodies, individuals and businesses arising from the provisions of the Bill.”

Why, therefore, have you separated that element out? You made that comment in relation to the bill, but you have omitted to include—or perhaps it was an oversight in drafting the bill—an appeals process for farmers, for example. As we have heard from Jim Fairlie, farmers are going to experience severe loss.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Through land reform, the Countryside (Scotland) Act 1967 allows people to walk. What if there were two people walking across a hill and they each had one dog? Would they be taken to court if they joined other dogs?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

There is a contradictory element in the bill. You are prohibiting the involvement of two dogs in an accepted activity but you envisage that more than two dogs could be involved. The important word there is “involved”. Would it be possible for you to explain what is understood by a dog being “involved in” an activity and why those provisions are contradictory?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 1 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

That is okay.