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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 1943 contributions

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Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

It is your turn at last, Dr Guyan—you have waited patiently. In your opening statement, you said that data should reflect experience, and that it should reflect who we are and who we want to be. You said that there is too much data—you can correct me if you did not say that; I was a bit shocked when you said it, so I wanted some clarity there. Is it your position that we should now collect only data based on gender ID, and not data on sex?

11:00  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I was just referencing the specific examples that I gave, which could be about young people seeking help in gender identification clinics, the gender pay gap and all the other issues that I have raised with regard to how we go through our lives, in terms of how that definition forms public policy, creates services and provides help.

11:15  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I have a very small question for Mr Lowe. Can you clarify whether the GRC issued to anyone born in Scotland and aged 16 or over will also be available to anyone born here, but who now lives in another part of the UK?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Do any other members of the panel have a view on the Cass review and how important it is in the context of what we are doing in Scotland? It seems not.

12:30  

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Good morning, panel. First, I ask witnesses to explain their views on the proposal in the bill to lower the age for a GRC from 18 to 16. I ask the Rev Karen Hendry to start. We have heard that the Church of Scotland agrees with discontinuing mandatory assessments but not with lowering the age from 18 to 16. May I have your views, please?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I want to develop that line of questioning. If, for example, the Government reform went through and all the suggestions and policy reforms were passed in the Parliament, would that make you feel uncomfortable about your position of removing the need for an assessment, given that you do not support the lowering of the age to 16? I accept the arguments that you have made. How would you feel about that? How would the church feel about that?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I will extend the question to the other witnesses. Let me ask Fraser Sutherland first.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

It is strange how laws and regulations work. After all, you cannot get a credit card, place a bet, get a tattoo or drink alcohol until you are 18. The rules and regulations are strange for 16 to 18-year-olds.

Chris, can I bring you in here?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

My last point is that, with the Gender Recognition Act 2004, it already felt as though there had been an impact on the collection and use of the data, because public bodies are either refusing to collect or not collecting data based on sex. I am wondering whether the bill will exacerbate that problem. Do you agree that it could become a problem as we move forward?

It is a difficult question. On whether we bring the age down to 16, people’s views and experiences are based on certain points in their life, so, whether it is a job or things such as savings and pensions, there is a lot riding on this. Do you think that it is important, in light of our discussion, that data should be collected on a sex basis, perhaps as well as a gender basis, as you were talking about, so that we can create good policy?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee

Gender Recognition Reform (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 7 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I want to pick up on what Mr Kerr said regarding the allocation of prison accommodation. I would like clarity on how part 13 of the Prisons and Young Offenders Institutions (Scotland) Rules 2011 works with your policy. The rules state:

“Female prisoners must not share the same accommodation as male prisoners.â€

Your current policy states that prison accommodation

“should reflect the gender in which the person in custody is currently living.â€

Does that breach the 2011 rules? How do they work together?