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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 June 2025
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Displaying 1943 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Yes.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Okay.

In England and Wales, the number of prosecutions has been no greater, proportionately, than it has been in Scotland. What specific changes do you see in the bill that would make prosecutions easier, in terms of the way in which offences and exceptions are defined?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I am quite concerned about this, convener. I have seen hare coursers. They scarpered before anybody got there, which means that nobody had seen them. It was pitch black and they had torches. The problem with hare coursing is that the police cannot catch the offenders because they are fleet of foot. Although people might not necessarily walk their dogs at night in the middle of nowhere, the bill would still need to be clear about protecting ordinary dog walkers.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Before I ask about licensing, I would like to get some clarity—in writing, if necessary—from the Crown Office and Police Scotland regarding the concern about use of the term “reasonable steps” in section 3(3)(c). Lord Bonomy said that the courts would have no trouble with that expression. Why are the courts unable to manage that expression, which is widely found in statute?

I will move on to licensing. Detective Sergeant Telford, Lord Bonomy noted that, with or without licensing,

“The same difficulties of proof and enforcement would remain.”

With regard to enforcement and proof, what is your view of the licensing provisions that are set out in the bill?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Surely you will have some examples of what there has been in terms of enforcement since the first act.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

The code of conduct was introduced. How has enforcement worked for Police Scotland so far?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Okay. Thank you.

10:30  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I have a supplementary question on the point that Mr Telford made about the removal of the word “deliberate”. Last week, Lord Bonomy said that the bill is clear and simple and that we should “avoid unduly complicating” it. How would changing the words in the bill or extending its scope affect ordinary dog walkers?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

To use Michael Clancy’s phrase, when it comes to that, the proof of the pudding will be in the eating. We have heard that there could be issues with the movement of animals from A to B. Animals do not see boundaries or marches, which is where the difficulty lies with regard to the role that NatureScot will play in licensing.

I will ask you some quick-fire questions. Lord Bonomy suggested amending the 2002 act, coupled with a code of practice for hunts and the introduction of monitors. A code of practice was introduced, but not the monitors. Is there any evidence that that approach has worked or, indeed, that such a combination of approaches could work?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

The bill may lead to greater use of firearms in the countryside, as land managers try to deal with predation in the absence of dogs. Is that a concern for you? Have you considered that?