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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 June 2025
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Displaying 1943 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

There are new requirements to protect the environment and ground-nesting birds, and to increase the biodiversity of species within Scotland. Making an exception, in sections 7 and 8, to the offences when a scheme has “environmental benefit”—rather than considering predation control as part of that—does not consider the fact that, depending on how they decide to do it, land managers might inadvertently protect the environment as a positive consequence of predation control. Do you not think that that should be reflected in how the licence would be applied for and granted, on a general level?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

We are already at stage 1 and there has been no consultation on the licensing scheme as yet. It is therefore difficult to determine whether NatureScot will, with its current reduced budget, be able to fulfil those requirements. Do you think that it might be worth looking at the financial implications in the consultation on the scheme?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

How does the animal welfare improve when you roll in the environmental benefit and the livestock predation at the same time?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

We need to make the bill workable and practical, minister. I know that that is one of your intentions.

You used the term “loopholes”. A loophole can be defined as one person’s perspective of a reasonable defence. That brings in the argument about proving a defence of hare coursing.

Hundreds of people go out on rough shoots, not intending to shoot rabbits, and take more than two dogs. It is slightly strange that we would want to limit the number of dogs for people who are not intending to shoot rabbits.

In addition, there could be a spurious allegation. In such a situation, would that rough shoot be stopped?

Could it be workable to include an exception that covered permission to be on the land? By doing that, if someone has three well-controlled spaniels but something happens and a dog runs off after a rabbit—unintended, of course—we would not have to look at that individual; they would be able to prove their defence. Could we consider an exception in the bill to cover that?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Can I get some clarity on that, convener?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Just for the record, I say that I also support that, but I think that we need to find a workable and practical solution to ensure that the bill is not just a catch-all, if you know what I mean.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

Okay—that is fantastic.

Convener, do you want me to conclude my questions in one go rather than coming back in later? My next question is relevant.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I have managed to get some words down to help us both understand what I am trying to say about sections 7 and 8 on exceptions before we leave this particular area.

The section 7 exemption and the consequential section 8 licence for environmental benefit are limited to where the activity is part of a scheme. I would like to know what constitutes a scheme for those purposes and why that limitation has been included. Land managers manage foxes for a variety of purposes, including to protect vulnerable species. Would that activity count as a scheme?

11:00  

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I asked Police Scotland about deprivation orders and the seizing of vehicles, horses and quad bikes. That also speaks to my point about financial resources for Police Scotland. They do not have facilities for keeping hounds. They have dog kennels, but they cannot keep horses. I do not think that we are talking about many quad bikes, but it is important for the minister to recognise that there could be financial implications.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Hunting with Dogs (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 June 2022

Rachael Hamilton

I do not have the financial memorandum in front of me, but I am sure that it says that the bill does not create any additional resource implications for bodies or stakeholders.