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I have no further comments, and I will press the amendment.

So, that is the actual evidence that you are citing.

I thank the minister for her comments. I believe that the duty to report is an important aspect of all legislation. I hope that the minister would agree that the provisions could have a significant impact, not on things that are specifically in the remit of the bill but as a consequence of the reforms of the 2002 act.

Although I have reflected on whether my amendment is overly prescriptive, I believe that there could be an impact on the matters that I have set out in the amendment, such as jobs and livelihoods, and that there could be biodiversity loss or negative environmental consequences. I do not think that we should underestimate the impact that the bill could have on cultural heritage.

I kind of agree that my amendment could be overly prescriptive. I will bring it back at stage 3. I will withdraw it at this stage, if I may, and will reconsider it on the basis that the minister has stated that the impact will be considered in the business regulatory impact assessment.

Can I make a point of order on amendment 171, for the record? I know that you cannot change the result of the vote, but I would have abstained.

Amendment 172 moved—[Jim Fairlie].

Will you take an intervention?

Will you take the intervention?

I just want to get your thoughts on the points that were raised last week about rough shooting. You have said that working dogs could be used as a cover for other activities. How, in your belief, could a working gun dog be confused for a lurcher or a hound?

My amendments in this group aim to address potential problems with the existing wording, which leaves it unclear what amounts to taking “reasonable steps” to use the method that causes an animal “the minimum possible suffering”. As the bill is drafted, it could be argued that only the method that causes “the minimum possible suffering” can be deployed, regardless of circumstances. It needs to be made clear that causing “the minimum possible suffering” in the context in which the person is operating constitutes taking “reasonable steps”. The expression “as humanely as possible” is widely used in wildlife and welfare legislation and understood by the courts.

Alternatively, the addition of “in the circumstances” would make it clear that the method of minimum suffering will vary depending on the circumstances, even if there was a method that could objectively be said to cause less suffering but was not possible in the circumstances. It also avoids the argument as to which method is the one that causes the minimum suffering possible. Clearly, the sooner an injured animal is dispatched, the better, but would the person who dispatches it immediately using a knife be using the method causing “the minimum possible suffering”, or would they have had to take “reasonable steps” to obtain a firearm if that could be argued to be a method that caused less suffering?

It might be argued that the existing wording could be construed as recognising that the way of killing an injured animal that causes minimum suffering is relative to circumstances and what is possible but, for the avoidance of doubt, the bill would benefit from an amendment to give a greater degree of certainty to people operating under the legislation and to avoid any vexatious allegations.

Amendments 36 to 39 would allow the person using the dogs to exercise their judgment over how many dogs would be appropriate to cause “the minimum possible suffering”, as they would be best positioned to make that judgment.

Those amendments aim to alleviate suffering for animals, as many others have aimed to do. I urge members to vote for them with that in mind.

Amendment 243 would extend the period of time in which a 14-day licence could be used from 14 days to six months from the date on which the licence was granted. I listened to the minister’s comments on my previous amendments in relation to the extension of the duration of time in which a 14-day licence could be used, and the amendment reflects some of the comments that were made and revises the period down from 12 months to six months.

To reiterate what I said previously about extending the period of time in which a licence can be used, it is important to acknowledge that the control of wild mammals is preventative and not simply a reactive method or a response to damage having been suffered. We must recognise that fox control is a year-round activity and that it is conducted using a variety of methods depending on factors such as the terrain and the time of year. Farming is not simply a hobby; it is a business that manages land and produces food. Much has been made of allowing businesses to carry out their role without overly bureaucratic diktat from pen pushers, ensuring that they can operate in as practical a way as possible.

I move amendment 243.

As it stands, I believe that the bill limits the environmental benefit exception to situations in which the use of dogs—whether two dogs or more than two dogs under licence—is “part of a scheme”. It seems unnecessarily burdensome, given that land managers often undertake pest control to protect and enhance wildlife. I have no idea why they should have to come up with a scheme. The bill does not define what amounts to a scheme; it is not clear from the evidence sessions or from the documents accompanying the bill, but a scheme is currently conceived of in terms of the work of NatureScot, RSPB Scotland and other large bodies.

I am still concerned about the idea of a scheme. Most managers have a land management plan—is that a scheme? If they wish to use more than two dogs, what amounts to such a scheme? In terms of a licence for environmental benefit, surely it is sufficient that NatureScot should be happy that the use of more than two dogs is necessary and will make a significant contribution to environmental benefit.

With regard to the loss of biodiversity, it is strange that we would want anyone to discourage wildlife management that assists in nature recovery or to limit it to statutory bodies and charities when the vast majority of land is held and managed privately. If ministers are serious about reversing biodiversity loss and saving species such as the curlew and capercaillie, we must work with land managers, not against them, to ensure that, in such situations, livelihoods are protected and wildlife is managed in order to protect livestock.

I press amendment 243.