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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 4 August 2025
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Displaying 1535 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Ross Greer

He is just intrigued.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Ross Greer

That is fair enough. I would broadly agree with that. I think that Universities Scotland makes a fair point about simply wanting to understand what the Government is looking for.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Ross Greer

If they have already taken voluntary packages, I will not pursue the matter further, but I echo your hope that we can find a way to retain the skills and knowledge that they have built up in the sector.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Ross Greer

Minister, you will be aware that the trade union representatives who have appeared before us suggested that the bill gives us an opportunity to increase transparency and perhaps set some stronger rules around senior staff salaries at institutions. As you know, I have a lot of sympathy with that position. In particular, I cannot understand why college principals are exempt from the salary rules that apply to every other chief executive equivalent in the public sector. I am interested in your response to what the unions have put forward in that regard, particularly Mary Senior鈥檚 point that the current position makes it harder to argue for public money to go to those institutions when there are many more than 100 members of senior staff at universities in particular who earn far in excess of what the First Minister does鈥攕ometimes four times as much.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Ross Greer

Up to a point, I understand what you are saying. The reality is that, conditions can be attached to the significant amounts of public funding that an institution receives. I understand the distinction between universities and colleges: universities are independent institutions that compete in a more globalised market. I do not accept that that makes the University of Edinburgh principal鈥檚 recent salary increase acceptable.

We have discussed this before, but is it still the Government鈥檚 position that college principals should not be subject to the chief executive pay framework that applies to all other equivalent roles across the public sector, other than public-owned companies such as Scottish Water and Scottish Rail Holdings?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Ross Greer

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Ross Greer

That is helpful. I have some sympathy with the Universities Scotland position on this. It was also looking for a bit more clarity with regard to the point that Andrew just made about what should be in the bill. There should be something clear there. It should not be too specific鈥攖he point of using regulations is that they are more flexible鈥攂ut there should be something in the bill to give a sufficient degree of clarity over what kind of threshold we are setting.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Ross Greer

I know that last week鈥檚 Official Report has not been published yet.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Ross Greer

Drafting instructions have already been requested on the matter.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Tertiary Education and Training (Funding and Governance) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 May 2025

Ross Greer

I appreciate that. To make broaden out my point鈥攖his overlaps somewhat with John Mason鈥檚 line of questioning about powers of compulsion in relation to information provision and the Dundee example鈥攖wo quite different points of view have been put to us, not only in this evidence session but during the past couple of years.

The Educational Institute of Scotland has articulated the issue most clearly. It believes that the SFC has simply not exercised the powers that are already available to it to address poor governance and decision making in relation to not just financial viability but other matters, such as the erosion of fair work principles in particular, at institutions. The alternative position that the previous SFC chief executive articulated鈥擨 think that she said this when she last gave evidence to us before leaving the post鈥攚as that the SFC had insufficient powers of compulsion in relation to institutions.

The question that I have put to a lot of the witnesses whom we spoken to so far has been about clawback. The SFC can claw back public money that has been provided to anyone that it funds. It is an incredibly blunt tool, and in many situations it would actually make things worse, particularly financial crises. As a result of the bill, would the SFC have sufficient powers to be able to exercise appropriate influence, and do you accept the point that clawback, although perhaps sometimes an effective stick to wield, will not be an effective means of enforcement or compulsion鈥攈owever you want to word it鈥攏ine times out of 10?