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You have, however, expressed in writing some reservations about the proposals. They might be less diplomatic in writing than in person, but they are notable. Aside from public safety is the issue of prejudicing the whole justice process, including those who use the system to evade justice through non-appearance, for example. You used the phrase “cohort of defenders”. Is there any concern that, as a result of shifting the balance to the sole principle of public safety as the primary ground for granting or refusing bail, sheriffs will be unable to remand people when there is a concern or significant risk that the person will simply not appear in court at a future date?

The committee saw that in person; I noticed that dates for court appearances were normally set quite soon after the custody hearing. We know that there is a cohort of people who simply will not attend. Is the inability to remand those people, specifically for that reason, a problem?

Good morning. I am happy to come back in later with substantive questions, but, timing wise, this question might follow on nicely.

I heard every word that you said, but I struggled to follow the flow chart of it in my head, because it was a verbal flow chart. I wonder whether you might help the committee by illustrating that in writing to us. I hear where you are coming from and I am trying to follow the flow chart of where you make decisions and where the cut-off times are.

I have a question for Mr Watt. You said that one of the frustrations that you felt as a fiscal was the binary choice between remand or release. However, is it not the case that there is a middle ground in which a sheriff can release someone either with enhanced conditions or on supervised bail, which seems to be a more popular option these days? Is that the middle ground?

Are you scenario planning for a reduction in the prison population in the way that the Government is?

I will put my first question to the Crown Office. I foresee that I will get the diplomatic answer that, “Those decisions are for Government and Parliament to make”. However, the Crown has submitted a detailed paper outlining several concerns, so I think that my question is appropriate. Is it your overarching feeling that the 1995 act is fit for purpose and does not need to be amended? My question relates primarily to part 1 of the bill; part 2 is a separate matter.

I would really appreciate that and I am that sure other members would as well. If you have spotted a gap in the proposed legislation, and we can help to fill that gap, I am sure that the committee would be willing to do so in some way. That is very useful and helpful feedback.

I wanted to put a wider question to the Parole Board. You say that the ministers already have the power to effectively overrule decisions that the board makes or to decide that a prisoner may be released. There is a perception that the bill goes a little further than that. For example, measures arose during the Covid pandemic, through which decisions were made at a ministerial level to release prisoners. An explanation was provided and there was an understanding around that, although whether you agreed with it or not is another matter. However, the new rules bake that into the system. What are your wider views around that issue? Do you feel that it is appropriate? Are you comfortable with it?

Okay, but the wider question is whether those decisions are best made by the Parole Board, prison governors or ministers in St Andrew’s house?

I will come back in later, convener. I will let other members ask their questions.

They are very unwilling to go on the record and share their views with us, which is unfortunate because they are on the front line.

We went to see some custody courts in action. My personal impression—other members will have their own thoughts—is that remand is very much a last resort in those scenarios and that sheriffs explore all options. However, that does not tally with 26 per cent of our prison population being prisoners on remand. Is that because too many people are being sent to prison on remand? Are the appropriate number of people being sent to prison on remand—the public safety test has already taken place—but the length of time that cases are taking to come to fruition is such that the prison population is burgeoning? As other members have said, the problem is that we do not have the right data to work that out. That is unfortunate when we are considering a bill that will change the rules around bail. That is a comment rather than a question.

I have a final question. The Government has introduced the bill with the ambition of reducing the number of people who are remanded and not given bail in many scenarios. The financial memorandum seems to back that up with some estimates around the reduction in the number of people who will be held on remand.

Obviously, it would be beneficial for the SPS if fewer people came into the system. However, there is a school of thought among the judiciary that the bill will not make a huge difference to the decisions that it makes and that it is already making the appropriate decisions. The removal of liberty is a very serious decision that justice partners make, and although politicians are free to tinker with the rules, justice partners will still go about their business as usual.

I am unsure as to what the potential outcome of the bill might be. Have you given that any thought? Clearly, the bill will have a large implication for the prison population and its numbers. That question is directed to the SPS.