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—but it would be subject to the extra level of test that the Parole Board was comfortable with it. I appreciate that there would be implications for the Parole Board and it may be unhappy with those, to an extent, but it would add another level of scrutiny to the process.

Automatic release means that the person just walks out the door halfway through their sentence. Given the data that we have on reoffending by those prisoners, the amendment would add an extra level of check and balance to that release. Prisoners would still be eligible for release halfway through their sentence, if suitable.

All the terrorists and sex offenders would burn to death, but everyone else would get out. It is such an odd scenario, and the explanation does not make sense. The emergency power is to be used in a life-threatening situation, and I think that we probably agree that it is sensible for the Government to have that power—

When the Government lodged its amendments in this group, we were minded to support them, because they seemed to improve the legislation and provide further clarification. However, it cannot go unnoticed that amendments 21 and 23 to 27 are opposed by the organisations that work with victims day in and day out. That is notable.

I suggest that the Government should do something unusual by not moving the amendments if there are problems with them and instead taking them back to the drawing board. We have been asked throughout the two weeks of the stage 2 process not to move amendments that are, on the face of it, trying to do the right thing but might be problematic. This is an opportunity for the Government to do exactly the same.

Although an explanation has been given quite late in the day, it is of notable concern that those to whom this section of the bill will apply have problems with the amendments as drafted. One approach would be to agree to the amendments and to fix this at stage 3, but it seems to me that it would be better for the Government to revisit the issue after further consultation.

I do not doubt that, and I do not doubt the cabinet secretary’s commitment to consultation and engagement ahead of stage 3, but we have to decide whether to vote for the amendments here and now. It would be easier if we did not have to do that, given that the position of those organisations is clearly contrary to that of Government. It would be better if the committee were not put in that position. Nonetheless, we will support the amendments because of the promise, which is now on record, that the Government will look at them again ahead of stage 3.

The problem is that it is not clear cut. The pandemic was an emergency, which is why we passed emergency legislation. It is interesting that the cabinet secretary said that it is not a power that she would ever want to use. The problem that I have, irrespective of your views, is that previous cabinet secretaries have used the power to release prisoners for emergency reasons. When that power was used, we saw the consequences. That is what I will come on to next.

Under the coronavirus legislation, the Government—not this cabinet secretary, but this Government—did use that power to release prisoners. The Scottish Government released 348 prisoners in early May 2020 under what was then emergency legislation. Of the 348 prisoners who were released under that emergency legislation—we all understood what an emergency was in that scenario—142 went on to reoffend within six months of release. That is perhaps why victims organisations have such an issue with it.

What is worse is that none of the victims involved in any of those cases was informed of the emergency release. The use of that power was debatable in that scenario, and the effect that it had on the wider community was debatable. Therefore, it is all very well saying that it is just a catch-all emergency power that we hope we will never have to use, but the Government has used it and might use it again.

I believe that the power was perfectly suitable under the Coronavirus (Recovery and Reform) (Scotland) Act 2022, which I understand is limited to run until 2025, but, if the Government wants that power for longer, it can come back to Parliament and ask for that or make it permanent if it wishes. This bill is not the place to put in such a power, but, if the Government insists on having it, the very least that it can do is be forthcoming to Parliament and make sure that there is some form of scrutiny. At the moment, there is none; it simply does not exist.

For the protection of future Parliaments—whether I am in them or not is irrelevant—if there is to be such a sweeping power, knowing the effect on the community and on victims of releasing hundreds or potentially more prisoners, the very least that the Government can do is ensure that there is some scrutiny, debate and, ideally, a vote. In this case, that would be done through the affirmative procedure, as the Government already details. That is why my amendment 93 would remove the rest of proposed new section 3D of the 1993 act. I also support Katy Clark’s amendment 38, which I note from the groupings document Collette Stevenson supports, too.

The wider point, though, is that what is notably absent is any duty to consult a victim about the release of an offender. As you rightly said, the VNS is really the only mechanism. I know that the VNS is subject to review, but we feel that we have an opportunity—via future amendments if not the ones in this group—to put something about victims’ consent in the bill. It is not a blanket proposal—every victim will deal with it differently.

This is all about release planning, and clearly our intention is to ensure the on-going safety of the victim after the offender’s release. We have widely debated that issue, but there are also advantages to the offender in knowing the parameters around the conditions for their release. It might even ensure that the offender does not inadvertently breach licence conditions, which we have heard is sometimes the case; indeed, we saw examples of that in the hearings that we attended. There is a significant advantage to offenders, as well as victims, in the victim being involved in the process. At the moment, it is a bit woolly around the victim’s involvement. I hope that the Government can find a mechanism to ensure that there is a duty to consult.

I am not sure that we should be reticent about making changes such as the one that is proposed in amendment 70 based on the question of how well resourced the Parole Board is. The Parole Board will need to be resourced to the level to which it needs to be resourced in order to meet the legislation that we put in place.

If the issue is about public safety or the suitability of a prisoner to be released and the likelihood of their reoffending after release, that should be the primary consideration, not the effect that the proposal might have on how much work the Parole Board has to do.

It is quite a short amendment and we are trying to get our heads around what it would do and why. Is the scenario that you are explaining that, prior to the Parole Board considering someone’s release, Scottish ministers could direct their release and that would be the end of the matter? In which circumstance would Scottish ministers want to release someone earlier than the Parole Board would decide to? It is not clear cut; the case has not been made.

I will describe what my amendment 93 would do. If members look at page 11 of the bill, they will see, about halfway down, proposed new section 3D of the 1993 act, which is about parliamentary scrutiny of regulations made under proposed new section 3C. It says:

“Regulations under section 3C are subject to the affirmative procedure, unless”

the following applies, and there is a list of situations in which that scrutiny would be removed.

My amendment takes a simplistic approach, perhaps, but it would remove the rest of section 3D down to the end and just before the beginning of proposed new section 3E on the following page. The reason for that is simple. It would remove the Scottish ministers’ ability to release prisoners under section 3 of the 1993 act without some form of parliamentary scrutiny or, indeed, a vote.

Affirmative regulations are often debated at committee, which could be an appropriate place. Indeed, over the years, this committee has given a number of Scottish statutory instruments full scrutiny and debate. Sometimes, we have even pushed an SSI back or brought it to a vote when there was disagreement. Therefore, the affirmative procedure is a suitable means of scrutinising such decisions.

I will come on to amendment 38 in a second. It clearly goes a step further. However, my amendment 93 would remove the problematic part of proposed new section 3D.

The bill states that the Scottish ministers can release prisoners under the made affirmative procedure if they

“are of the opinion that, by reason of urgency, it is necessary to make the regulations without their being subject to the affirmative procedure.”

In her comments, the cabinet secretary said that that would impair their ability to make immediate decisions.

I will make two points in response. The first is that it is entirely possible for Parliament to make laws in an emergency situation when it is necessary to do so. The sort of emergency situation in this case remains unknown, because the cabinet secretary was unable to tell the committee what situations would be suitable for use of the power. During the passage of the coronavirus legislation, we, as a Parliament, even when not sitting in person, were able to pass quite sweeping laws in very short timescales. In fact, the Government makes use of emergency protocol to pass law when it suits it. Therefore, I cannot understand the rationale behind ministers arguing that their ability to make decisions would somehow be impaired.

There is the fundamental point that Parliament should be able to scrutinise such decisions, because we do not know the volume of prisoners who could be released or the reasons that could be given. At the very least, as a courtesy to the committee or to the Parliament itself, the Government should be forthcoming with its plans to do that, even at short notice, to give Parliament some say in the matter, so that it can be properly debated. It is a very sweeping power.

There is some definition of what would constitute an “emergency situation” on page 10 of the bill. For example, it refers to a

“situation which has resulted in any prison (or part of a prison) ... being unusable”.

Half of Greenock prison is unusable—does that mean that ministers could release prisoners on the basis that there was a water leak or damp? What if, for example, the Health and Safety Executive deemed a prison to be unsuitable and breaching international human rights legislation? Would that constitute a reason for release?

The answer is, “No, probably not,” and the answer from ministers in that scenario would probably be that it would not, but the provision as currently drafted says that they could do so. That is the problem.