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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 August 2025
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Displaying 1619 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Right. So we will leave it as is and hope and pray that there is a replacement—

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Jamie Greene

I just want to direct the conversation back to where we started—that is, the situation going forward. As you will be aware, the head of the Scottish Prison Service, Teresa Medhurst, was on television recently, and, referring to prisoners, she was quoted as saying:

“enough is enough ... We cannot take any more.”

Given that we are, as I think it is widely acknowledged, already over capacity, if the trend continues and prisoner numbers rise, the big question is what happens then. I guess that my question, therefore, is this: what do we do when there is simply no more space?

Presumably there are three things that we can do. First, we direct the judiciary not to send people to prison; secondly, we release people who are currently in prison early; and thirdly—and this is something that I suspect is being actively considered—we house the additional influx of people in temporary accommodation. Given your lengthy and wide-ranging experience of prisons, what would be the best option for policy makers?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Jamie Greene

It seems that we in Scotland have been rather slow to deal with the evolution of criminology in things such as sobriety tagging and GPS technology. Do you understand that an element of society, including some of the victims organisations that often deal with legislators, feels some unease at some of those suggestions? For example, there is unease about emergency legislation that releases people from prison early, because it feels as though justice has not been served. There is also unease about directing the judiciary as to what it should and should not do and who can and cannot go to prison. How should legislators balance that unease among victims and the wider public, who might fear for their safety, with the perilous situation in prisons? Is it at tipping point?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Jamie Greene

I can tell.

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Of course, much of that comes from the top down. In the first section of your briefing, you immediately identify—I do not want to put words in your mouth—a lack of political leadership overseeing much of the strategy as being an issue. You specifically identify that the

“Economic Leadership Group has not yet been established.”

The strategy was published two years ago. Are you surprised about that?

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Indeed.

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 14 March 2024

Jamie Greene

It does. Thank you.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Have you been able to—or have you had to—quantify the financial effect of the Bute house agreement commitments on previous capital commitments? In other words, have you been able to calculate the cost of meeting different objectives—inclusive growth, wellbeing or other net zero objectives—that did not exist when the projects were initially costed? Have you been able to calculate the cost of those changes in government?

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Before I go on to maintenance, I want to give Mr Morrison the chance to say something. I am sure that he did not want to get out of bed early for nothing.

I have a specific question, Mr Morrison. I believe that you are in charge of health infrastructure investment. Will you give us some comfort that the remaining six of the promised 11 national treatment centres will go ahead? The briefing paper from Audit Scotland sheds some doubt on whether that is the case.

Public Audit Committee

“Investing in Scotland’s infrastructure”

Meeting date: 7 March 2024

Jamie Greene

Based on what we have just heard, there is no estate replacement strategy. It is all on pause. You have accumulated an immense backlog and you have talked at great length about the 2024-25 budget. It is absolutely right to look at what we have in the purse at the moment, but backlogs, by their nature, are an accumulation of underinvestment over a substantial period—a decade or more in some cases. Is it the case that we simply did not fix the roof while the sun was shining, which has left us in the precarious position of having billions of pounds’ worth of backlogs from which we might never recover?