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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 August 2025
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Displaying 1619 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Either the Auditor General was incorrect in his analysis of the arrangements or what you are describing does not exist. One of those must be true.

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Let us point to page 10 of the report. There is a very helpful—

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Is that not part of the problem? It is not a direct criticism of those involved in the delivery of the strategy, but you have something that is impossible to measure because it feeds into a much wider macroeconomic situation. Therefore, it is very difficult to quantify whether you are doing well, whether the strategy is working, whether it is performing relative to value for money and whether many of the criticisms that are in the Auditor General’s report are valid or not. Is that not an impossible task that you have, to prove to us, to the Auditor General and to the Government that the strategy is working and is worth while? How can you refresh something if you do not know what effect it is having on the economy?

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Page 10 has is a nice visual version. In the middle we have dotted lines between the NSET delivery board and the economic leadership group, which we know has been a failure. However, below that, there is the relationship between the NSET portfolio board, the programmes and the economic strategy unit, then with the Scottish Cabinet and corporate governance within various directorates-general. The bit in the middle, in the dotted square, says:

“No formal connection set out in NSET Accountability Framework.”

That is the missing link—the key missing link—but you are saying that it is not.

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Good morning, gentlemen. Let us go back to where we started. If we look at page 11 of the Auditor General’s report, paragraph 17, the opening line states that

“The Director General for Economy is the accountable officer for delivery of the NSET.”

I appreciate that your brief opening statement claimed that progress has been made, but you are yet to convince me. As the accountable officer in charge of the delivery of NSET, in what way have you made progress?

Public Audit Committee

National Strategy for Economic Transformation

Meeting date: 9 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Before we come on to targets and metrics, because they are important and it is an area of questioning that we do want to go into, at what point did you, in charge of the strategy, not flag with either the First Minister or someone senior in Government to say, “Guys, you have to sit around the table and have a meeting”? How can two years pass and colleagues who sit next to each other in the parliamentary chamber not sit next to each other in a civil service room somewhere and ask what progress is being made on the strategy? Is it just that they had meetings, but you were not party to them? Did you not flag to them that this was important? Were you not chasing them for meetings? At what point did you say, “This is not working.”?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Can you indicate how much?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

There have been penalties of around ÂŁ5 million. However, a recalibration of the contract seems to suggest that GEOAmey is receiving ÂŁ4 million over a number of years in payments additional to the original contracted value. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Wow—you are weeks away from hitting your absolute capacity. What happens when you hit that point? Do you say to the courts, “Please do not send us any more people. We cannot take them,” or do you say to ministers, “We have to start releasing prisoners”? Which of the two is preferable?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Here is what I do not understand. In your opening statement, you said that we are sending fewer people to prison each year, but the prison population is rising—it is at its highest level in nearly five years.

The Parliament has made a number of legislative changes, some of which have been mentioned, such as the Management of Offenders (Scotland) Act 2019, and there is the presumption against short-term sentences, the changes in sentencing guidelines for under-25s and a massive shift in alternatives to custody. Whatever your views on those policies—for or against—some of which were rather controversial, we have made such changes already, and yet the prison population is going up.

Are the courts simply not following the guidelines and are sending too many people to prison, or does the nature and profile of those prisoners mean that we are sending the right number of people to prison, but the Scottish Government has simply not built the capacity to deal with that?