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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 June 2025
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Displaying 1578 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

I am sure that there are other providers out there that would have doubled their rates overnight in such a scenario.

I would like to come on to my main line of questions, which are about the wider prison estate and population. Some of those have been covered, but some important issues have been raised. Teresa Medhurst, I was particularly concerned by some of the language that was used earlier in the session. The phrase that the Scottish Prison Service used was “on the brink”—on the brink of what?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

It sounds to me that we are not getting to a point of danger—we are already in the danger zone. Seven prisons in Scotland are coded red, which I presume is quite serious. We have heard that you are reaching capacity and in some cases are over capacity in prisons. Overnight, this could bubble over into serious conditions for staff and prisoners. That sounds to me like the worst possible scenario. What could get worse in our prisons other than rioting and mass insurrection?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

We should commend the work of the prison staff. Having been on other committees and have visited some of these places, I understand that. Still, we have moved a long way since even my last visit to Saughton.

What is the maximum capacity when we absolutely cannot take any more? What happens when we get to that point? What physically happens when you reach maximum capacity? What does the Prison Service do?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

Mr Rennick, what are those options? What are ministers considering?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

We are not far off that stage. We are hearing that we are one bad weekend away from reaching the critical point at which ministers would have to come to Parliament and ask for the power to release prisoners. Is that where we are at?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2022/23 audit of the Scottish Prison Service”

Meeting date: 2 May 2024

Jamie Greene

It was the best run, but she said it should be bulldozed. We have to reflect on that.

Public Audit Committee

Administration of Scottish Income Tax 2022-23

Meeting date: 25 April 2024

Jamie Greene

Perhaps you could share your expertise this morning. What are people doing? If there is divergence as a result of either more bands or higher tax rates, what sorts of things do people do? Do they move out of the country? Do they not take pay rises? Do they not do overtime? Do they put more money into their pensions? Is there more tax avoidance or evasion? What are the risks when there is divergence?

Public Audit Committee

Administration of Scottish Income Tax 2022-23

Meeting date: 25 April 2024

Jamie Greene

Good morning to our guests. I want to get straight into the meat and bones of the content of the HMRC reports. There are more than 100 pages to digest and, as the convener said, we have not had much time to do that, but what is contained therein has been the source of a lot of commentary over the past 24 hours from an analysis point of view, but also from the media and, unfortunately, as is always the case, from a political point of view.

It is important that the committee gets under the skin of the facts and figures, so I ask HMRC to enlighten us on the key findings of the reports. They singularly pick out the year 2018-19, but nothing since then. They give a snapshot—I understand that—but it seems odd that we have had no further analysis of any subsequent years. Maybe you can comment on that. I would also like to know what you found when you analysed the 2018-19 tax year, when Scotland moved to a five-tier system. What is the situation regarding our income tax base? Is it better, worse or indifferent?

Public Audit Committee

Administration of Scottish Income Tax 2022-23

Meeting date: 25 April 2024

Jamie Greene

Okay. I know that other members have a lot of interest in that issue.

Public Audit Committee

Administration of Scottish Income Tax 2022-23

Meeting date: 25 April 2024

Jamie Greene

I understand that, but I have a concern that, if we have to wait five or six years for the 50-page reports that contain that data, it is impossible for them to be used to inform Government decisions. They just show what has happened, and not what might happen in the future. What we really need to know is what the trend has looked like over the past few years, particularly when there has been further divergence in tax bands and fiscal drag.

You said that there was a small or moderate loss of income. The analysis in your report says that it was about £60 million in the financial year 2018-19, but that related to a very small number of people. It does not take a lot of behavioural change or a lot of people to drop out of the Scottish tax system for there to be a fairly substantial loss in the income that the Government receives and, therefore, has available to spend on public services. Will you give us an indication of how worrying that figure might be? Table 19 in the report shows that just 60 people coming out of the system at the top rate equated to a loss of almost £38 million of income. That is huge.