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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 August 2025
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Displaying 1619 contributions

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Meeting of the Commission

Deputy Chair

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Thank you.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

That is fine. You do not need to go into too much detail on that today. It is really just to double-check that public money is being spent wisely.

One thing that you pick up on in your annual report and something that you admit is that the ratio of people in the organisation who have declared that they have a disability seems to be relatively low in comparison with other organisations or indeed the national average. Can you tell me what you are doing to improve that?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I am sure that there are lots of disabled people who are very well educated in the technical space who might disagree with that point, but I understand the gist of what you are saying.

Meeting of the Commission

“Quality of public audit in Scotland: Annual report 2023/24”

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Presumably, it is the case that some of that work is blended anyway, with some of it being done by external auditors and some by your staff. Do they work together in that way, or are they very distinct in that respect?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I understand, and I understand that this forum is probably not the place to go into policy matters, but I felt as though there was more to get out of you this morning. It sounds like the content of a good book—certainly one that I would read—so I hope that you write it.

Thank you for your forbearance, chair.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I accept the point that it is not the job of the auditor to assist the body in the preparation of accounts—and rightly so. That opens up questions that are perhaps more for the permanent secretary, for example on how the Government can support those bodies in preparing accounts, which would make your job 10 times easier.

My final question is directed towards the outgoing chair of the board. It would be remiss of me to let the evidence session end without referring back to your opening comments, which were quite stark. You made three specific points in your opening statement, but number 1 on that list was your wider analysis of the direction of travel of many of the public bodies that Audit Scotland audits. You used some interesting and specific phrases—quite stark ones—and I noted them down. I thought that you might want the chance to elaborate on your point before we end the session.

For example, you used the phrase

“business as usual is not an option”,

you talked about “radical” change and you said that certain things are “no longer sustainable” and so on. You clearly have your own personal views on that. In general, that is quite worrying language to hear. Could I give you the opportunity to share your thoughts on how you have come to these stark conclusions?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I have two supplementary questions. I will draw my line of questioning to a close by taking you right back to both of your opening statements. Auditor General, I will start with you. You mentioned something that I picked up in the opening pages of the annual report, which is the challenges that you face with other public bodies not preparing their accounts on time or properly. You expand on that quite eloquently on page 1. You seem to imply, and you can correct me if I am wrong, that many of the challenges that you face in concluding audits on time are a direct result of other public bodies—to use the phraseology in your report—facing

“significant disruption, including those who monitor and report on their own bodies’ spending.”

What is the issue, and how can we support those public bodies more?

Meeting of the Commission

Interests

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I have no relevant interests to declare.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I understand. For clarity, there is a pension element to the proportionately higher increase for some of the senior directors and senior management, which accounts for that higher figure. Do you believe that the organisation acts as fairly and squarely as it can act across the board, with regard to pay rises?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Do you find that most of your staff come from other audit companies? Is there poaching between the public and private sectors in that regard, as we see in other areas of the public sector?