łÉČËżěĘÖ

Skip to main content
Loading…

Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

Filter your results Hide all filters

Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 June 2025
Select which types of business to include


Select level of detail in results

Displaying 1578 contributions

|

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I believe that you were here, David, for the earlier evidence session, so you will have followed that line of questioning. At any point when you were looking at the accounts, did any of the issues that we identified in relation to where there was quite large variance in the accounts raise questions?

I will refer to two examples that might help you come to an answer on this. The travel and subsistence budget went from £500,000 to the reported figure in the accounts of only £82,000, which raises the question of whether there was just a change in the way that things are reported—that is, whether the line that such things appear in has changed due to changes in accounting practices—or whether there has been a huge reduction in the forecast figure versus the used.

The depreciation figure almost doubled from ÂŁ500,000 to ÂŁ1 million. Did those things raise flags as you went through the accounts, and were there any conversations around them?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Are you generally content with the rationale and explanations that have been given, including what you have heard this morning?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

It is just that there is a variance of 15 per cent between what was approved at budget and what was spent, which is stark. I guess that I was trying to get under the skin of why the costs went up so much. I wondered whether some of the external firms charged higher rates or different multiples, such as double or triple time, in order to get work finished. I am a little further forward in understanding the 15 per cent figure, but I still do not fully understand it.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I understand, and I understand that this forum is probably not the place to go into policy matters, but I felt as though there was more to get out of you this morning. It sounds like the content of a good book—certainly one that I would read—so I hope that you write it.

Thank you for your forbearance, chair.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I accept the point that it is not the job of the auditor to assist the body in the preparation of accounts—and rightly so. That opens up questions that are perhaps more for the permanent secretary, for example on how the Government can support those bodies in preparing accounts, which would make your job 10 times easier.

My final question is directed towards the outgoing chair of the board. It would be remiss of me to let the evidence session end without referring back to your opening comments, which were quite stark. You made three specific points in your opening statement, but number 1 on that list was your wider analysis of the direction of travel of many of the public bodies that Audit Scotland audits. You used some interesting and specific phrases—quite stark ones—and I noted them down. I thought that you might want the chance to elaborate on your point before we end the session.

For example, you used the phrase

“business as usual is not an option”,

you talked about “radical” change and you said that certain things are “no longer sustainable” and so on. You clearly have your own personal views on that. In general, that is quite worrying language to hear. Could I give you the opportunity to share your thoughts on how you have come to these stark conclusions?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I have two supplementary questions. I will draw my line of questioning to a close by taking you right back to both of your opening statements. Auditor General, I will start with you. You mentioned something that I picked up in the opening pages of the annual report, which is the challenges that you face with other public bodies not preparing their accounts on time or properly. You expand on that quite eloquently on page 1. You seem to imply, and you can correct me if I am wrong, that many of the challenges that you face in concluding audits on time are a direct result of other public bodies—to use the phraseology in your report—facing

“significant disruption, including those who monitor and report on their own bodies’ spending.”

What is the issue, and how can we support those public bodies more?

Meeting of the Commission

Interests

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I have no relevant interests to declare.

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I understand. For clarity, there is a pension element to the proportionately higher increase for some of the senior directors and senior management, which accounts for that higher figure. Do you believe that the organisation acts as fairly and squarely as it can act across the board, with regard to pay rises?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

Do you find that most of your staff come from other audit companies? Is there poaching between the public and private sectors in that regard, as we see in other areas of the public sector?

Meeting of the Commission

Audit Scotland Annual Report and Accounts for the Year to 31 March 2024

Meeting date: 24 June 2024

Jamie Greene

I presume that .you cover the costs of their training. You said that around half of those people stay in the business, but the other half presumably do not. What are the governance arrangements around the costs of training?