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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 1570 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Jamie Greene

You keep saying that, but how are we going to fix it?

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Jamie Greene

Thank you very much for that.

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Jamie Greene

Why is the service not able to respond more quickly? Does it not have enough ambulances or staff, or has demand increased exponentially? Is it all of the above?

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Jamie Greene

Good morning. Ms Lamb, on Monday, the First Minister made a speech about the state of the NHS in Scotland. He described the NHS as being “fundamentally resilient, fundamentally robust.” No sooner had he stood down from his place at the lectern than the director of the Royal College of Nursing in Scotland responded, saying:

“Many nursing staff will not recognise the first minister’s description of a resilient and robust NHS in Scotland. Their current experience is of a service struggling to meet the needs of patients and leaving them to carry the burden of not being able to deliver the care and treatment required.”

Who is correct—the First Minister or the director of the Royal College of Nursing in Scotland?

11:15  

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Jamie Greene

My final question is slightly off-centre. What has been done to improve whistleblowing in the NHS? Many łÉČËżěĘÖ will have been contacted by constituents, particularly those who work, or who have worked, in the NHS, with complaints or anecdotal evidence of malpractice that has led to patient safety being put at risk. What has been done to improve the process? I have dealt with a number of cases in which NHS practitioners feel that the current process is simply not working, and I know the levels of frustration that they feel as they go through us, then to ministers. They feel that the responses that they get when it comes to dealing with complaints or allegations are extremely poor. Do you think that the situation is better than it was?

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Jamie Greene

I am all for people working together and agencies working collaboratively. We hear a lot about that—it is civil service lingo—but the reality is that the numbers speak for themselves. Something is not working, and it is clear that the Government is failing to meet its objective in delayed discharge, which is causing a huge number of issues. Have you had any feedback at all?

Let me ask a more fundamental question. Do you think that the IJB model is broken? I ask because it does not seem to be delivering for folk.

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Jamie Greene

I am not talking down nurses.

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Jamie Greene

Let us do a reality check. You agree with the First Minister that the NHS is “resilient” and “robust”, but not a single NHS board in Scotland is meeting its 12-week out-patient target or their in-patient target—not a single NHS board in Scotland is meeting its 18-week planned care target. One in six Scots is sitting on an NHS waiting list—that is nearly 900,000 people, of whom nearly 10,000 have been on a waiting list for over two years. To top it all off, Scotland has one of the lowest life expectancies in western Europe. Does that sound like a “resilient” and “robust” health service that is fit for purpose and that is delivering for the public?

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Jamie Greene

The target for A and E treatment is that 95 per cent of people are dealt with within four hours. That can mean that someone is admitted to hospital, if that is considered necessary, then discharged, or treated then discharged. The current average performance is 69 per cent, which exactly marries up with what you have just said—far too many people in A and E are not being treated, moved on or moved out of that environment, which has a knock-on effect on ambulances.

What is the issue in A and E specifically? Are people turning up when they should not? Is it understaffed? What is the problem? What is causing the delay?

Public Audit Committee

“NHS in Scotland 2024: Finance and performance”

Meeting date: 29 January 2025

Jamie Greene

The figures are atrocious. I point you to page 48 of the Audit Scotland report, which I flagged at a previous meeting of the Public Audit Committee. What you would normally expect to see on that page—as I am pleased to see in other tables—are little green ticks where targets have been met. However, there is not a single green tick anywhere on that page.

The numbers speak for themselves. The targets are 95 per cent, 100 per cent and 90 per cent for beginning treatment within given timescales. They are ambitious. I get that. I know that the health service is very challenging across the UK, but look at the performance measures on that page. Look at in-patient treatment within 12 weeks of a decision to treat. The poor people in Grampian are sitting at 46 per cent of the 100 per cent target. Fife and Forth Valley are at 47 per cent. For the three targets, Lanarkshire is at 61 per cent, 46 per cent and 60 per cent—nowhere near the targets. There are huge numbers of people waiting for far longer than they should, and £100 million is not going to scratch the surface, is it?