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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 1570 contributions

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Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Let us get this right. The budget, if it is agreed to, will allocate around ÂŁ47 million to the yard, of which ÂŁ37 million will be used to complete the Glen Rosa, and there is ÂŁ14 million of capital money. Also, ÂŁ9 million of the capital money will be allocated to the Glen Rosa. Is that correct?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Perhaps you can write to us and outline that. We asked Audit Scotland about that previously, and there was a lot of confusion over the numbers.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Let us segue nicely to the Scottish Government. Would that request be granted?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Jamie Greene

I am sure that Mr McMillan is more than capable of agreeing with many of those points, and I am sure that we will hear some of them from him. As someone who lives in Greenock, I agree with many of the points that I am sure that he is about to make, but that is not the point of this committee, and it is not the point of the Auditor General’s work. That specific work, rightly, involves holding to account senior civil servants, ministers and people who run enterprises that are owned by the public, funded by the public and paid for with taxpayers’ money. We are entirely doing our duty in that respect.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Jamie Greene

There is a track record of your having said to ministers that something is not value for money for public investment.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Jamie Greene

In your opening statement, you said that the three pillars of being a good sponsor of a public asset such as Ferguson’s are good governance, transparency and value for money. Which of those is demonstrated in the conversation that we have had today? We have heard numerous examples of poor governance and there has been a lack of transparency, with basic questions that cannot be answered. Certainly, value for money is out the window. The ferries were supposed to cost £97 million for the two, but we are now nudging towards £400 million of public money. Is that a complete failure on your part?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Thank you for putting your faith in their importance, convener.

Gentlemen, I appreciate that the clock is ticking. I recently jumped on the bandwagon of looking into my ancestry, and, when I got the certificates through, I discovered who my grandfather was. It said on the certificate that he was a welder in a Greenock shipyard, which was a surprise to me, because my granny never told me that. It then transpired that his father was a welder in a Greenock shipyard as well, so you could say that it runs in my blood. How on earth I am sitting here in a suit, talking about their finances, is another matter.

You are right, Mr Petticrew, that everyone wants to see the yard succeed. The question that we face—this goes back to the Auditor General’s report—is about the fact that Audit Scotland has analysed the numbers and the current situation and has flagged some very serious risks around the business as a going concern. None of us wants to talk in those terms or in that language, but we have to reflect on what the Auditor General said. Therefore, I am looking for some comfort that, on the basis of the strategy and throughout the business, including at board level—as you say, it goes from the bottom up, from the apprentices in the yard right through to those in the Scottish Government who are in charge of the strategic vision for the business as a publicly owned asset—there is a real joined-up approach to creating a sensible and realistic plan for a future for the yard. Otherwise, all the warnings in the Auditor General’s report would sadly come to pass. Fill me with some confidence that that is not the case.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Jamie Greene

That is a nice segue into colleagues’ questions about the future of the yard.

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Let us talk about that. One of the major flags raised in the previous evidence session and in the report was the idea that all the eggs have been put in one basket, that being the small vessel replacement programme. The Auditor General said:

“if the yard was unsuccessful in securing work through the ... programme or if ... the shortfall was not backfilled by other ... avenues,”

there is doubt

“about the yard’s viability.”—[Official Report, Public Audit Committee, 16 January 2025; c 11.]

Other comments were made around that in writing and in the evidence from witnesses sitting where you are sitting. Do you accept that, in the creation of the business plan for the yard, too much emphasis or reliance was placed on winning that business? If that work does not follow through, does it leave a huge, gaping hole in your business plan?

Public Audit Committee

Section 22 Report: “The 2023/24 audit of Ferguson Marine Port Glasgow (Holdings) Limited”

Meeting date: 5 February 2025

Jamie Greene

Will that money be ring fenced? That is the question. Will capex investment in the yard be ring fenced?