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Why do you think the Government would want to take HMP Kilmarnock back in-house to SPS?

I am not, but I would love to know.

The problem is that much in the upgrades or improvements that those people are asking for costs money, and will require a capital budget that very few of them believe they will get. With all the good will in the world, an increase in the resource budget will keep people happy, but it will not necessarily be invested in the things that they need. That is the concern.

In what respect?

I will briefly recap an issue. The letter almost implies that £15 million is the settled amount, but the figure is nowhere near that, and nor is £51 million necessarily the end of it. At the end of her letter, the Solicitor General stresses that “proceedings remain live”; there might be other discussions and the £51 million is certainly not a cap on the liability.

On the financial side of things, it was helpful that the Crown Office made it clear last week that the money was not coming from its budget at a time when such budgets are under such pressure or are facing cuts. However, the question remains as to where the money is coming from. It is all very well saying that the Scottish Government will underwrite it, but which bit—which directorate—will do the underwriting? Does the Government take out insurance on such matters? At a time when ministers are keen to stress how difficult things are for it financially—which I totally understand—it is perfectly reasonable for us to ask where £50 million-plus of public taxpayer money will come from to subsidise the payment to the claimants.

Aside from the money—which is an important issue; it is actually a hell of a lot of money—there are other questions that lie alongside all this and which we have never really got to the bottom of. Why were the decisions taken in the first place? Why has no one ever been held to account? Russell Findlay mentioned that, too. A huge amount of taxpayer money has been spent, but, to my knowledge, no one has lost their job or properly apologised. A number of individuals have, rightly or wrongly, become overnight lottery winners as a result.

The Government must accept that, to restore trust in the Crown Office and its independent decision-making process, even with regard to historical decisions, some form of inquiry that is as independent as it can be must be held at some point. Whether that should happen in this parliamentary session or the next, I do not know, but I do not think that that faith can be restored until those questions are answered.

I thank the working group for its work on a difficult and sensitive issue, not least for members who represent communities in the west of Scotland.

It is unclear from the letter what will happen next around some of the proposals. I have concerns about the suggestion that decisions will be taken at microlocal level. I also have concerns about whether local authorities will have new or specific powers in relation to marches and processions, and about what the consequences of that might be. We could have quite disparate outcomes, with certain types of marches allowed in one part of the country but not in another, for example. That would leave matters open to the vagaries of how different councils operate, depending on whether, for example, they are more member led or official led. We also need to bear in mind that councils come in different shapes, sizes and political colours.

I would like to get a bit more information, as it is a little unclear from the cabinet secretary’s comments whether he supports the proposal to give more powers to local authorities. He only says:

“I am keen to explore what, if anything, is possible and desirable”

in relation to the working group’s conclusion on that.

The cabinet secretary uses the phrase

“improvements could be best handled by local partners”,

but the letter does not state who those local partners would be and what statutory roles they would play in making decisions.

Some people are disappointed that we will not have a Northern Ireland-style parades commission. I understand that the number of parades that take place is much lower in Scotland than it is in Ireland, but the consequences are often not dissimilar.

I ask that we are kept up to date on the issue. I would find it really helpful to get from the cabinet secretary any information on the Government’s direction of travel.

Unfortunately, Covid taught us that many care homes felt like prisons for many of their patients.

We are talking about pre-budget scrutiny and, in your opening comments, you mentioned not just prisons—although we have focused our comments on them—but the wider justice sector. All areas of the justice sector face the same potential outcomes; that applies to community justice, the police, the Crown Office and other stakeholders, who are all cogs in the wheel.

If we end up with the Government finding extra money to give to some of those services, on the back of evidence that has been heard in this committee, it is likely that much of that will simply get sucked up in pay rises, because pay is the largest source of outgoings for many such organisations. Do you have any concern that, even if we are not looking at flat cash and there are some additional year-on-year rises in their budgets, all of that will indeed be sucked up through negotiations with workers, or to avoid industrial action—which there is potential for across the board—and none of the good things that any of them wants to do will happen, even given such an increase in the budget? What is your advice to Government about that?

Good morning. Thank you for your written submission. I will start with a quotation from it, which backs up something that Teresa Medhurst told us last week. You say:

“It is difficult to avoid the conclusion that”

a flat cash settlement—I am paraphrasing—could lead to a

“rapid deterioration of safety.”

Last week, Teresa Medhurst from the Scottish Prison Service said that it would

“impact on things such as violence and vulnerability.”—[Official Report, Criminal Justice Committee, 2 November 2022; c 46-47.]

What exactly do you mean by your comment? How would a flat cash settlement affect the volatility of a prison?

If you were not happy with what you saw, or you felt that shutting the prison down was the best option, would you recommend that it be shut down?

I think that Rona Mackay has covered it. I did have a question about your comment about having a separate prison for those with physical medical difficulties. We saw some of that in practice when we went to Saughton, where we saw how difficult it is and how the modifications that are needed in old buildings mean that a dedicated facility might serve that purpose better. However, if we are not building prisons in Dumfries or Greenock, it is hardly likely that we will start building for specific cohorts.