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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 August 2025
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Displaying 775 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Maree Todd

We have talked a little bit about the oversight of secondary legislation. Under the rules of the Parliament and the normal procedure, there is a minimum level of scrutiny for secondary legislation, but I would be very comfortable with enhancing that scrutiny to ensure that the Parliament is comfortable with what we are doing. We welcome your scrutiny鈥攚e want to work with you to make this the best bill possible, because we want to deliver improvement for the people of Scotland. We can definitely ensure that you are comfortable with the level of scrutiny that you will have across the board on all the legislation.

One of the key pieces of work that the committee will be interested in is the business case. It is a dynamic document and, as you will expect, we regularly update it. We will ensure that we keep you apprised of how the business case is looking.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Maree Todd

I will give one simple example. Over 10 years ago, the Christie commission told us to spend money early instead of pulling people out of the water and we want to spend money preventatively. If an elderly person is admitted to hospital and gets a care package, that care package will, on exit from hospital, cost twice as much as it would have cost had we managed to catch them before they went in. There will be efficiencies if we do this well. I need to provide you with that assurance.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Maree Todd

Yes.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Maree Todd

I will be working very closely with the Deputy First Minister to design a social care service that works for the people of Scotland and, as with every area of spend, she will be ensuring that we have sufficient funding to put behind it. However, that is definitely outside my remit.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Maree Todd

The rephasing will probably mean less spend, as there will be less of a need for external consultants.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Maree Todd

The final details are still being decided, but there is an agreement involving ourselves in the Scottish Government, the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and the national health service that there will be shared accountability. I would envisage a board involving others, including, for example, those with lived experience, staff-side representation and the national social work agency, and it would oversee and scrutinise the national care service and what it delivered. An important point is that I would expect the board to be built with some teeth so that it could take action in the event of service delivery failure and ensure the success of that delivery.

We have not quite finalised the negotiations on the national care board, but I think that it will be an absolutely crucial part of oversight. I find it frustrating that, at the moment, I am regularly held to account for the delivery of social care across the country, even though I have no legal responsibility for it and the matter sits entirely with local government; I have no powers to change what goes on. As a result, the proposal aligns with Derek Feeley鈥檚 vision in his independent review of adult social care and with what the country told us in our consultation, which was that people want national Government to have some say in and oversight of social care.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Maree Todd

There is a lot of engagement with the profession, but there is no proposal to transfer employment. With the agreement between us and COSLA, that will no longer be necessary for any staff.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Maree Todd

We are keen to work with you鈥攖hose letters back and forth are very helpful鈥攁nd we will try to furnish you with whatever information you need to scrutinise the bill, because we want the bill to be the best that it can possibly be.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Maree Todd

Donna, do you have a longer-term view than I do? It is still a framework bill, so we expect the detail to be in the secondary legislation.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill: Financial Memorandum

Meeting date: 26 September 2023

Maree Todd

Absolutely. I am confident that we can improve the local scrutiny of spend. At the moment, there are times when it is hard to follow the money, and that is sometimes the explanation for challenging situations on the ground. If we empower our local structures and provide them with adequate data and the ability to scrutinise where money is going in the system, we will have a system that operates much more efficiently and that delivers much more effectively for people.