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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 16 August 2025
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Displaying 1198 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Liam Kerr

I will go back to Bill Kidd’s first question. Cabinet secretary, do you recognise the risk that some witnesses have suggested to the committee that, in talking about and defining Scots, the bill will standardise out what are very different dialects, such as Doric and Norn?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Liam Kerr

That is quite a key point—it is what I am asking about. With respect, I am not asking about what is there already. Given that new duties are apparently being created, I am asking what that means, so that the committee can produce a report. What does the bill actually mean and, therefore, from there, what will the extra cost be to our cash-strapped local authorities? With great respect, Douglas Ansdell, I think that what I am hearing is that you—the bill team and the cabinet secretary—are not in a position to give the committee an answer to those very important questions. Is that a fair reflection?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Liam Kerr

To stick with the question of Scots, you would like children to be exposed to that. Those were your words. Where will the teaching staff come from in a context of falling teacher numbers in many subjects and ever-smaller numbers of specialists in most subjects? Will those teachers come from an existing pool or will there be new ones and what is the projected cost of training them?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Liam Kerr

Good morning, cabinet secretary. In response to Ross Greer, you talked about the importance of outcomes. Comunn na GĂ idhlig has suggested that a powerful and meaningful interim target ought to be 90 per cent of children who enter GME being functionally fluent when they leave secondary school. What is your view of that? Should the concept of functional fluency apply to Scots, too? If so, how is functional fluency assessed if Scots is a category incorporating numerous significantly different dialects?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Liam Kerr

It was a long time ago.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Liam Kerr

Do you mean for both Scots and Gaelic?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Liam Kerr

With respect, in what way is that meaningful for the economy? Will you quantify that? You have a reputation for being all over the economy piece, so you must have given some thought to the economic output of taking those measures.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 22 May 2024

Liam Kerr

I will just reflect on that briefly, to make sure that I have understood. The idea is that, with regard to Scots, existing teachers will be able to avail themselves of the Open University training and be able to teach in Scots. When they go back to their school, will they teach in English, as they have always done, or, now that they are trained in Scots, will they be expected to teach in Scots?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Liam Kerr

James Wylie, I would like to stay on the point that my friend Michelle Thomson has raised. Your submission raises concerns that the bill uses the concept of what you call “Standardised Scots”, as seen in the translation of the bill, as opposed to recognising variants such as Orkney Norn. Can you develop that concern to help the committee understand it? Particularly, what does educating in Scots mean in practice for the likes of Norn or, indeed, Doric?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Languages Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 15 May 2024

Liam Kerr

My final question picks up on something that Michelle Thomson explored earlier. You mentioned in your submission that there is a risk that the creation of a standardised Scots will come at the expense of Orkney Norn language and culture, and I presume that countering that will require resource and will involve cost. You also mentioned that the additional costs and staffing pressures have not been considered.

From looking into the process, do you have any idea what the financial consequences of the bill as drafted would be for Orkney Islands Council? In any event, do you think that Orkney Islands Council—given all the support that you have already put towards Norn—is in any position to take on extra costs to protect Norn that might arise from the bill?