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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 27 December 2025
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Displaying 1229 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I accept that the progress is not where it should be, and that the context needs to be understood.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am not going to have you put words in my mouth, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Yes, the programme for government that was written in advance of a global pandemic. I think that you need to reflect that the context has changed, and that is my position. That was actually the committee’s position, back in 2022, when Ms Webber was convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

We have made progress, but we need to continue the progress that is required. I do not think that there is an MSP in the room who does not support our ambition to close the poverty-related attainment gap.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Yes, but external factors have undoubtedly had an impact on the progress that we have been driving. That does not mean that we should move away from that target and aspiration.

We have been able to drive progress. I am sure that the committee is well acquainted with the achievement of curriculum for excellence levels data that was published in December last year, which showed record improvement in literacy in our primary schools, and showed that the attainment gap has reached record lows between secondary pupils achieving third level in both literacy and numeracy. Levels of literacy and numeracy across primary and secondary schools are at a record high.

I am pleased that the poverty-related gap in outcomes has reduced under this Government since 2009-10 by two thirds—or 67 per cent—for people leaving school and going on to a positive initial destination. That is important, because I was in a school in 2009-10, and young people often left school without qualifications and without a positive destination.

We have completely changed how schools support our young people through a qualifications framework and a targeted focus on closing the poverty-related attainment gap. To put it bluntly, historically many of those young people might have left school without qualifications. That was not acceptable to the Government, and I do not think that it would be acceptable to any political party.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am sure that you can attribute that, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Are there specific points of blame that you would like to address with me?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

At that point, some learning was reflected in the approach that we took. I accept the convener’s point—of course the Government needs to learn lessons on what has worked and what has not. In my initial contribution, I highlighted the PEF sampling work, which has been really important. I was hoping to share with you today some of the detail on that, but I will write to the committee with more detail in due course.

I see a note from Ms Taylor—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I believe that we have made real progress and that there are dedicated teachers out there today—we saw that in the 2022 report—who are making a real difference and improving the life chances of Scotland’s children and young people, including some of the most vulnerable.

I go back to the points that I made at the start. You cannot measure the SNP against a point back in 2016 and ignore the global context since then. The challenge is not unique to Scotland: it is being faced in other parts of the United Kingdom and globally. We must not set aside the impact of the pandemic, which did not allow us to make as much progress as we would have expected by this point.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Scottish Attainment Challenge: Post-inquiry Scrutiny

Meeting date: 12 March 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I accept that. The convener has made political points, so I also accept that my party has been in power throughout that period and that progress has happened on my party’s watch and is to be welcomed.

I accept the member’s challenge regarding the point at which the Scottish attainment challenge was launched, but I cannot detract from the impacts that the pandemic and austerity are having on our schools. I go back to the points that I made my original contribution. To be blunt, headteachers are now using PEF money to plug gaps that the welfare state should be providing for and the use of austerity policies in relation to benefits has harmed and damaged some of our most vulnerable families. Headteachers now find themselves in the invidious position of having to help vulnerable families while also thinking about educational interventions. They have to make choices.

I confirmed that SAC and PEF will continue—although what comes next is obviously in the gift of the next Government—but we need to think about the totality of school funding and how that can be sustained in the future.