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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 23 December 2025
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Displaying 1229 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

That has been part of the challenge facing the Government for a number of years. Indeed, the point was pursued by one of the trade unions when it raised concerns about individual school-based data. I think that that sort of thing would need to be undertaken in a very sensitive way. I do not think that the issue is insurmountable, and of course it is part of the bill, which we are supportive of. We will continue to engage with Mr Johnson on this at stage 2, because we need to reassure local government that authorities are not going to be measured against one another and that national data will help inform better practice.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I suspect that you are right.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I have received quite a lot of correspondence about the school that the member mentions. In my original correspondence with members, I said that the legislative landscape means that responsibility for the school rests with Highland Council, not with the Government. However, given the quantity of correspondence, I am keen to meet parents and carers and to listen to them directly. I do not want to prejudge that meeting before it takes place and it is difficult for me to comment on individual circumstances, but, given the strength of feeling from parents and carers, my view as cabinet secretary is that I should meet and listen to them. I will allow that meeting to take place and, given his interest, I am more than happy to meet the member and other members.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I do not want to prejudge the outcome of your engagement with the University of Dundee. I will say that the university is at a critical crossroads, and I know that the committee is mindful of that. We need to ensure the institution’s future, and that it is financially stable. The Government has been working on the issue for a number of months, and, as the committee also knows, the Scottish Funding Council is preparing conditions for funding that will support the institution to become financially stable.

I do not want to prejudge the evidence session. I await its outcome, and I am more than happy to continue engagement with the committee.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I sincerely hope that the university is happy with the Scottish Government. We are providing a large amount of public money to help it, given the challenges that it has encountered as a result of the financial decisions that were taken by the previous management team.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am going to a meeting with the Scottish Funding Council after this evidence session, so I will interrogate the point that you have made. I am not necessarily sure that I agree with the point about impartiality, but I am more than happy to continue my engagement with the SFC in that regard.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Which specific point are you alluding to with regard to impartiality?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I think that the evidence base for that was background briefing in the press, with unattributed sources. Is that correct?

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

The Government has said that we will support the bill at stage 1, but as the committee has heard about, the trade unions are concerned about some issues. We need to work with Mr Johnson to ameliorate some of the challenges. Definitions are part of the issue. We will continue to undertake that work, but there are diverging views on the issues, particularly from the teaching unions’ perspective, of which I am mindful.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I think that the committee has heard evidence on the role of the Care Inspectorate and, potentially, the role of His Majesty’s Inspectorate of Education regarding reporting in future. There are divergent views on that as well.

The committee heard from Pauline Stephen of the General Teaching Council for Scotland that, if we introduce the measures on a statutory footing, we need to be mindful that our approaches to child protection are not currently statutory. They are multi-agency measures, and the current landscape does not necessarily lend itself to a neat fix.

There is a big history behind the bill, with parents pushing for the proposed measures to happen, but it is fair to say that it has been challenging for the Government, over a number of years, to resolve the issues.

As for reducing the number of incidents, my understanding is that the Care Inspectorate has moved away from some practices over a number of years. That has partly been informed by the Promise—from which, I put on the record, I am recused. The committee has heard about the movement and change in behaviour, approaches and practices that has been happening organically over time. There has been a focus on moving away from such types of practices, and the committee has taken evidence on that from witnesses who have concurred with the opinion that has been expressed.

Remember, however, that the Care Inspectorate evidence is only one side of the coin. We do not have the granular detail from education services, and I think that we need it to inform the review.