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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 December 2025
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Displaying 1229 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

There are.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

It is fair to say that there continue to be issues in relation to the court, but that is a matter for the management team, and the university itself, to engage with.

The issues in relation to the court speak to the governance issues to which Pamela Gillies referred. That is for the committee to consider; it needs to be mindful of those aspects. Part of the challenge that Pamela Gillies spoke about was that the court was not working in the way that it should have done in order to provide challenge to decisions that were made previously. I am sure that the committee will want to explore those things, but I will, of course, explore them further with the SFC later to give me reassurance in that regard.

Richard Maconachie has been attending a number of court meetings with observer status for the SFC, so I am sure that I will engage with the SFC further on that this week.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I think that there were issues with membership. There were issues with trade union engagement as well, and issues with papers being shared late. That is off the top of my head, convener.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Yes.

Education, Children and Young People Committee [Draft]

Restraint and Seclusion in Schools (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Of course we can—and we may yet do so.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Ms Don-Innes leads on the children’s rights scheme. I think that it is part of the Promise—is that right? [Interruption.] I am being told that it relates just to children’s rights. However, I think that the timing of the guidance being published in November is quite complementary to the passage of the bill. We are nearly in November, and we are only at stage 1 of the bill. The committee might or might not be content with that update when it is published, so feel free to come back to the Government to probe us on the issues. However, we are strengthening children’s rights through our approach.

I will come back to the point that the member raised with Denise McKay about the 1980 act, because it goes back to the points that Pam Gosal made about mandating certain aspects of the curriculum. If you were to open up the 1980 act, you would see that there are lots of things that we could do. We would not have a five-page bill in that case, and some big, serious questions would potentially have to be asked about the delivery of education.

If the committee is interested to know—probably not for the purposes of the bill before us, but in the education space generally—I have commissioned John Wilson, a former headteacher in Edinburgh, to lead a piece of work for us on school governance and what comes next in how we fund our schools after the Scottish attainment challenge, which is meant to come to an end. We have extended it for a year, but such things need to be considered in the round. Indeed, Pam Gosal’s parliamentary colleague Oliver Mundell is very interested in how we provide support to our schools and local authorities. We have 32 councils, and we have heard today about some of the challenges that that can create. We should not separate those issues from wider considerations on public policy.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I am sorry, but I thought that the question was about compatibility.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

It has not, at the current time, but that is not to say that it might not be used in the future.

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

I will come to your second question first. I was struck by some of the evidence that the committee heard on that point, because a number of stakeholders said that parents are perhaps not aware of that legal right, which has existed for many years. In the guidance that will sit alongside the bill, if it is passed, we will provide further clarity on that.

One of the parental organisations that the committee took evidence from—it might have been Connect—talked about disparate approaches to school handbooks and the situation not being communicated in the way in which it would have expected. I am happy to reflect on that. The passage of the bill will, in itself, draw parents’ attention to the fact that they have that right, and that will foster better understanding. The guidance, which has also been raised by stakeholders in evidence given to the committee, will provide further clarity on parental rights.

On how the guidance works at the current time, we have very low rates of withdrawal. The committee took evidence on that from Barbara Coupar from the Scottish Catholic Education Service, and I spoke to her yesterday. We are looking at very low percentages for withdrawal rates. Lewis Hedge might want to give the committee the specific numbers. I think that there is a 0.59 per cent withdrawal rate overall—that is 0.56 per cent from religious observance and 0.19 per cent from RE. Is that correct, Lewis?

Equalities, Human Rights and Civil Justice Committee [Draft]

Children (Withdrawal from Religious Education and Amendment of UNCRC Compatibility Duty) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 28 October 2025

Jenny Gilruth

Forgive me, Ms Chapman, but are you talking about the independent right to withdraw?