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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 9 May 2025
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Displaying 1067 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Absolutely—that is good.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Ivan McKee

You are absolutely right. It is all about getting into the detail and seeing where the additional head count has gone, what its purpose has been, how much of it is temporary, how much of it needs to be made permanent and, as you have said, what the increase in service provision has been as a consequence. I do not deny that there has been an increase as a result of policies elsewhere, but it is hard to focus on what is actually going on if we are looking at it all from 30,000 feet and without parsing the data and understanding the detail.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Thanks for your contributions so far this morning—it has been an interesting session. Your comments have been couched and framed in terms of the perception that reductions in head count have been making things more difficult than they might otherwise have been, but when I look at the data—and perhaps you can help me square this circle—I see that local authority full-time head count has increased by 21,000, or nearly 9 per cent, over the past five years. I just want to understand why you are talking about cuts and reductions in head count when the reality is that head count has increased quite significantly over the past few years. I do not know who wants to start with that.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Ivan McKee

That makes things even more interesting. You have just quoted concrete examples of specific departments, but if we look at the 10-year timeframe that you have talked about, we find that over the 10 years to now—that is, the third quarter of 2023—the head count is still up 13,000 on what it was in Q3 of 2013. The head count has increased over that 10-year period, too, regardless of Covid.

My second question, then, is on your comment that a lot of people were brought in to do Covid-specific stuff. Post pandemic, are those people being redeployed? Should they be redeployed? What should the position be? If the argument is that they were needed for Covid, what is the situation in that respect now that we are beyond Covid?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Ivan McKee

You said that head count was down on what it was 10 years ago, but the reality is that it is up.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Exactly. You talked about all of the people who were brought in during Covid, so if that is the case, what are all those people doing now that we are past Covid?

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Ivan McKee

Good morning. My first question follows up on the matters that I asked the previous panel about. I am trying to get some insight on the macro numbers. I would then like to move on quickly and explore some of the stuff that Robert Emmott talked about on continuous improvement, opportunities for innovation and so on.

If you can cast any light on those macro numbers, that would be helpful.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Ivan McKee

That might help to clarify things, and you are right to say that there is clearly some work to be done to dig into the detail. I just thought it illuminating that the data shows a very different picture from the narrative.

I have a supplementary, convener, but it can wait until the next panels.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Ivan McKee

I just want to clarify that those numbers did include police and fire—30,000 of that reduction arose from their recategorisation. At the moment, we are at 262,000, so we can see that over the past five or 10 years, the number has gone up quite significantly. It is a different story if you go back to 2006, but we are talking about the pressures today. If we are talking about things that happened nearly 20 years ago, that is obviously a different conversation.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 19 September 2023

Ivan McKee

The area that I will focus on, which will be no surprise if you heard my previous comments—although I will leave out the workforce stuff, because I have more of a sense of that now—is process improvement and innovation. The Accounts Commission report talks about how agility and the ability to work across boundaries were, during the Covid period, much more prevalent—we all experienced that—than they had been previously and, sadly, than they have been since then. We have talked about what the future will look like in terms of work in offices because of changes in demand and in policies, and about how that needs to be thought through. I have taken on board the comments that have been made about the lack of multiyear funding impacting on that.

Bearing that in mind, my first question is about mechanisms to support innovation. Do you feel that the culture of looking for opportunities to improve is strongly embedded enough? Secondly, what kind of work is taking place to understand what the local authority of the future, and the workforce planning of the future, could look like?

I am also interested in the general power of competence, so you might want to touch on that, on the scope that it offers and on what would need to happen to take that forward in legislation or other mechanisms. I will throw that out there and let you answer as you see fit.