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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 12 August 2025
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Displaying 1228 contributions

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Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

Is that at a UK level or a Scotland level?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

That is helpful, and it puts some of the other numbers that we are talking about today into context. Thanks very much.

The last thing that I want to focus on is the uprating of MUP. What is your perspective on that? What should the mechanism be? Should it be automatic? Should it be based on inflation or affordability? I am going back to the graph that we have just discussed. I am keen to get anyone’s perspective on how we should progress that.

10:00  

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

The question that I am asking is about basic economics. If somebody had said to me, when I was running a business, “You have the opportunity to increase prices without increasing costs”, I would have seen that as positive, not negative. I am trying to understand why you see it as an economic challenge rather than an economic opportunity.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

Is the IFS number a Scotland number or a UK number? It must be a Scotland number, I suppose.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

We also have a number in our submission of savings to national health service costs, which is just short of £1 million a year. I understand how that has been calculated and it is good to see that saving. Are you aware of, or do you have any data on, the cost of alcohol harm to the overall economy?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

Thank you very much for the helpful data points. Can you clarify whether that is by value or volume?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

That is fine.

I will move on. In terms of the effect on the industry, I have a couple of data points on which I again seek clarification, as we will be speaking about those with our next panel.

A study by the Institute for Fiscal Studies says that there are £383 million of “windfall gains” from MUP to the alcohol sector a year. I am not sure whether that is increased revenue, increased profit, net profit or something else. There is also the Sheffield modelling, which gives a figure of £140 million, which is a revenue number. Clearly, that will not translate through to profit.

I do not know whether anyone on the panel is on top of any of those numbers. If not, it is not a problem.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

Okay. I will leave it there, but I find it strange, having been in business, that people whose day job it is to know such numbers do not have a perspective on the matter.

I will move on to talk about uprating. The SGF’s submission comments that you did not think there was any reason to increase the 50 per cent rate because wage inflation had not kept pace with price inflation. I am not sure how true that is according to recent wage inflation data, but does it mean that you would be comfortable with an increase that reflected wage inflation rather than price inflation, and that it is the inflation calculation that you are disputing rather than the concept of uprating?

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

With respect, I say that that is very different to what we are talking about. That was a tax that raised a revenue. You are right that there is data on that, but there is no data specifically on the additional revenue that has flowed through retailers and up the supply chain directly as a consequence of MUP.

Health, Social Care and Sport Committee

Alcohol (Minimum Pricing) (Scotland) Act 2012 (Post-legislative Scrutiny)

Meeting date: 6 February 2024

Ivan McKee

This is my final question. Again, I am quite perplexed. In effect, this is an opportunity for retailers, convenience stores and grocers to increase prices without increasing costs. I am not clear about why you see the increase as such an economic challenge, unless you can answer the earlier question and unpick who is charging who more, and what data is telling you about reduced revenue and profits, if that is the consequence.

10:45