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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 May 2025
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Displaying 1067 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

That is a matter for the First Minister, and I do not want to say any more on that.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

It is already available. It was published last November.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

Yes, absolutely. Last year, we did it on historical data, and we are now doing it on budgeted data. We are getting ahead of the curve and we will establish an efficient process. We do not want collection of another big load of data to be put on public bodies. We will update that.

The 2022-23 data is available, and the savings that we have delivered on estates and procurement and other aspects of the hard savings are already there.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

I would not want to make any such suggestions. I am sure that the committee will make up its own mind on what matters it wants to put forward. I would say that it is genuinely a privilege to serve as a minister in the Scottish Government, regardless of any issues around salary sacrifice.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

The number of bodies is one thing, but if that was the only objective鈥攚e talked earlier about objectives鈥攚e could miss the point there. We consolidate public bodies where it makes sense to do so. We have started work to look at the number of public bodies in each portfolio and whether there is scope for them to work more closely together in clusters. We are already organically creating those clusters, and some are further along that road than others in sharing resources.

Where there is a clear case that consolidation of public bodies makes sense because it will deliver a cost-effective solution and better services, that is very much on the cards.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

Absolutely, but we need to be careful about what we mean by zero-based budgeting.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

We will look at how the Welsh policy operates. If there were potential for waste tourism, that would be geographically easier to do from Wales into England than from Scotland into England. We will see how that works, take a sense of it and consider it in our deliberations on the tax for the next year.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

That is a good question. Because it is a complex system, it is not simply a case of one policy intervention making one difference that you can then measure.

We talked earlier about the landfill tax, and there you have a much cleaner line of sight when we make an intervention: we can see the behavioural change, the tax numbers and how that flows through. On the more general policy ambition, it is the nature of public service reform to have to deal with many interlocking bodies, policies and objectives at different levels.

There is a measure in the amount of money that we can demonstrably save by driving more efficiency across the system. That is one hard measure, and we are focused on measuring savings. There are also measures around what you might call the top line or the ultimate priorities of the Government鈥檚 agenda, of reducing poverty, growing the economy and tackling the climate crisis. We have top-line measures, but, as I said, there are clearly many different policy objectives that drive into and can influence those.

I suppose that it is a question of looking for more intermediate measures, many of which are covered in the national performance framework. Again, when it comes to a clear line of sight, many policies and bodies will be impacting that. In some places, it is clearer鈥攆or example, in the health service, there is throughput and the number of operations or procedures that are carried out and so on. In other areas, there is a lengthier process before we get feedback on policy interventions. In other areas, it might be easier to measure productivity鈥攚ithin Social Security Scotland, for example.

There is a range of different measures, and we are very open to quantifying some of those if it helps the committee and us to understand them.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

If we take those harder efficiency measures, we published data on what public bodies spend and the back-office cuts last year, and we will update it this year. That gives us numbers on the total spend on estates in the public sector, on maintenance of those estates, on procurement, on corporate finance, human resources functions, and so on. That data is now available for the first time across the public body landscape.

In parallel with that, we regularly publish data on how much money we are saving in the estates, and that number is 拢36 million up to now.

Finance and Public Administration Committee [Draft]

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 11 March 2025

Ivan McKee

We are working on that now. We are going back out to public bodies at the moment to get data for their 2025-26 budgets. We are working with public sector leaders to understand the best time to do that, but it will be in the next few weeks. We will go out for the next trawl of data, and it will be published towards the middle of this year.