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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 10 August 2025
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Displaying 1228 contributions

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SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Ivan McKee

Do you mean the level of accountability of the public bodies to the Scottish Government, or the level of accountability of the Scottish Government to the Parliament?

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Ivan McKee

Others may have a different perspective based on their experience, but I would say that both have the ability to gain traction in the media, which is, at the end of the day, where that pressure would be felt. If either route was generating commentary on the Government’s performance, what we have done or anything else, it would have the ability to generate that pressure.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Ivan McKee

Clearly, if somebody is not doing what they are supposed to be doing, we would be concerned about that. However, I am not aware whether the Government more widely is aware of that situation.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Ivan McKee

You have probably answered the question. If a body can get through the 13 steps and survive that ordeal, there is probably a good case for it to be considered. However, the presumption is that we should not have to establish a new body. The framework codifies the process that you need to go through to make the case for why a new public body is needed. It is an effective approach, but I am very willing to hear other suggestions of how we can make the process even more robust.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Ivan McKee

No.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Ivan McKee

That takes us into an interesting space. Ministers are rightly held accountable, as we are every day in the Parliament and elsewhere, for delivery bodies in the public sector, but that does not reflect on the SPCB-supported bodies to the same extent.

Depending on the nature of the body, the relationship can be arm’s length. We do not tell the public bodies exactly what they should do daily. We appoint the body’s board, which then appoints the executives; we give it the budget; and we put in place the framework document that explains the relationship, as we have talked about in evidence. It then gets on with it.

That is the correct approach, because, for good reasons, we would not want ministers to be involved in every last detail of every single public body. It is always a challenge to manage, but it is important to recognise that there are various checks and balances in the system for how the bodies operate vis-à-vis ministers. Ministers are not the accountable officers for the finances and so on; by and large, that role sits with the chief executives of those bodies.

There are sponsor teams in the Government that have the responsibility for engaging with the public bodies, and they have an important role to play in scrutinising compliance. Performance issues can be raised, and performance is obviously the subject of regular discussion in Government. There are several areas where that is quite high profile and therefore talked about frequently in Government. However, the operational aspect is, by and large, still carried out by the delivery body.

We also have Audit Scotland, the Auditor General for Scotland and others that are engaged in the essential work that they do to keep track of how public bodies perform at various levels. There is also parliamentary scrutiny, whereby ministers are held to account in the chamber and, indeed, in committees, which also have the opportunity to bring in chief execs and chairs from public bodies.

There are various levels at which scrutiny operates, but it is important to understand the distinction from the day-to-day operation of those delivery bodies.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Ivan McKee

Yes, I think that they do. Of course, every case will be different. The reports will come to ministers who will, by and large, be very engaged with the public body and have a good understanding of what that body is working on. The report gives ministers and officials a sense check as to whether the public body is pointing in the right direction, with the right priorities and focus. The information will then be a matter of public record, which allows those in the wider ecosystem to see and understand what the body is doing.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Ivan McKee

The Parliament, by way of its committees, has a hugely important role in that regard. It is not up to Government to decide how many committees there should be or what their workload should be. Committees have the scope to call in a broad range of public bodies and question them as part of any inquiry that they are undertaking—

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Ivan McKee

If your argument is that we need more committees or committees sitting for longer, that is clearly up to the Parliament—it is not an issue for the Government.

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review Committee [Draft]

SPCB Supported Bodies Landscape Review

Meeting date: 8 May 2025

Ivan McKee

Again, if they are Parliament bodies, it will not be for the Government to be involved in the process.