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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 August 2025
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Displaying 1377 contributions

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Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Ben Macpherson

Thank you for that clarity—I thought that you were asking about both issues. I will also briefly touch on short-term assistance at the end of my remarks, if I may.

The initial position that we have to consider is that CDP and ADP are different forms of assistance with different eligibility criteria. A person applying for CDP knows that they can be on that benefit only until the age of 18, but the fact is that they can also apply for ADP from the age of 16. I should also point out that, although a person can be on CDP only until they are 18, there are certain circumstances in which, if these regulations are passed and if there is good reason, we can continue that payment. I can go into those in more detail, if that would be helpful to the committee.

Given that these are different forms of assistance with different eligibility criteria, treating this process simply as a transfer would mean that the information that is held by Social Security Scotland in relation to a CDP award would, for many clients, likely not be sufficient for a decision on entitlement to ADP to be made, and we would need to ask clients to provide further supporting information if they were making an application for ADP. That is why a new claim will have to be made, but I again point out that clients will have two years to do so. I would also point out that the transition from DLA to the personal independence payment also requires a new application for the same reason. Given that this is in the best interests of all CDP clients, individuals on CDP will be required to make a new application to ADP with—and this is an important point—extensive and on-going support and advice being made available to young people and their families as they undertake the process.

I emphasise for the sake of clarity that we intend to make the process as smooth as possible with no gap in payment, which will obviously be very important in ensuring that it is less disruptive than the current system. It should also be noted that SCOSS has welcomed the additional flexibility in the system, commenting that it is likely to strengthen the rights of clients undergoing this process, and we therefore consider that this process and approach represent the best client journey for all clients.

As for short-term assistance, I remember our sitting around this table, discussing the bill that led to the Social Security (Scotland) Act 2018, and how, at the time, it was highlighted that this new initiative was being introduced for a good reason. It is for people who have experienced a loss of or reduction in award as a result of a determination and have requested a redetermination or appeal, and it is not available to those moving between different forms of assistance. If we were to extend the scope of such assistance to cover those transitioning between CDP and ADP, that would represent a fundamental departure from the policy intent of short-term assistance. As I have said, the transition from CDP to ADP has been designed to be as easy as possible for clients and their families, and we do not envisage short-term assistance being a significant consideration in that process. However, we will monitor the process on an on-going basis to understand whether and how further support can be provided to clients.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Ben Macpherson

On your request for clarification, I am happy to take that away with me. As I have said, though, the information provided for a CDP award would likely not be sufficient to make a decision on entitlement to ADP for many clients, though it could be enough for some.

I think that Jennifer Sinclair wants to respond on this issue.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Ben Macpherson

I thank Pam Duncan-Glancy for making those points on that important aspect regarding short-term assistance. I will bring in Jennifer Sinclair in a minute, but it is important to recognise that, as individuals make their journey from CDP to ADP in the period between the ages of 16 and 18—in most circumstances—the payment of their CDP will continue either until they move to ADP or until they become 18 and are ineligible.

The question of short-term assistance, therefore, is less of a material consideration. We have, of course, considered the matter in the round and, as I have stated several times now, we will for good reason continue to keep it under review to see whether any further support can or should be provided.

09:30  

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Ben Macpherson

I have spoken already about eligibility, and, in the interests of time, I do not want to repeat what I have said. However, I emphasise that the policy is being met by what we have done in introducing regulations in 2020 and in seeking to improve them today.

As Pam Duncan-Glancy rightly emphasises, the regulations are part of our wider consideration of support for families who are in the most need and our consideration of winter benefits. As the committee will be aware, we are also preparing to introduce two additional new benefits to support households with their heating costs during the winter. Pension age winter heating assistance will replace winter fuel payments, and low-income winter heating assistance will support around 400,000 households that are on low incomes in due course.

We also recognise the need to consider further targeted support for disabled adults of working age, in acknowledgment of the fact that households with a disabled person, irrespective of their age, are more likely to be in financial difficulties, as Pam Duncan-Glancy said. We will therefore continue to consider whether—and, if so, how—we can better support disabled adults over the winter months.

However, at the moment, the focus of our efforts is on prioritising support for the most vulnerable children and young people, which is what this benefit and the improvement regulations are about.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Ben Macpherson

I thank Mr Briggs for what is a good question. The Government continues to engage the third sector in our consideration of social security in general. Our engagement with SCOSS and the disability and carers benefits expert advisory group, as well as with third sector organisations, forms part of our core work.

I have talked about the evaluation that we are undertaking. Although that will be an internal matter, we will receive considerations from third sector organisations through not only official but ministerial engagement. I will ask Jana Eyssel to talk about the official engagement that there has been, or which might be on-going, but it is important to emphasise the formal process of engagement through SCOSS, which provides stakeholder input.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Ben Macpherson

I take the point. Indeed, in the period ahead, we will be discussing together and in a collegiate way the benefit take-up strategy and how we can work through not just the Government but all available channels to raise awareness of what is available and encourage take-up. It is an incredibly important issue in which the Government is very seriously and proactively engaged.

I am happy to give Mr Briggs an undertaking that I will continue to receive stakeholder feedback, whether from CHAS or from others. Indeed, we have formal processes in that respect. However, I also note that the changes before us today are based partly on stakeholder feedback. I hope that it reassures Mr Briggs, the committee and those who are listening that the regulations that we are seeking approval of today have been based somewhat on that feedback.

Social Justice and Social Security Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 28 October 2021

Ben Macpherson

We have thought carefully about the matter. It is important to emphasise that we still intend to pay eligible child winter heating assistance clients as quickly as possible and that we expect to pay the vast majority of the more than 19,000 eligible children and young people by the end of the year. I just want to make that clear.

This year, making payments safely to everyone will require additional time and care. If regulations are passed that extend eligibility to around 5,000 young people who are in receipt of PIP, client data will come from a brand new source, which will mean an increase in client volumes, and we need to consider the practicalities around that.

In the event that payments are not made by 31 December, we expect that fewer than 10 per cent will be impacted. However, as I said, our intention is that the vast majority will be paid before 31 December.

It is also important to emphasise that it makes sense to provide support when it is needed most. We have thought about that point carefully. As we know, the coldest months in Scotland tend to be January and February, and user research suggests that some clients would prefer to receive their winter heating benefits in those months. Removing the deadline might help us to meet the needs of clients by paying benefits at a time that suits them best. It will be a consideration for us next year, once we are able to evaluate this year’s process and reflect on the feedback that we have received.

It is important to appreciate that, with the launch of CDP and the start of case transfer for children from DLA to CDP, Social Security Scotland enters a crucial and complex phase in its work this winter. The flexibility that we will gain around making determinations on child winter heating assistance cases through the removal of the 31 December deadline will ensure that Social Security Scotland will be able to deliver all its benefits to a high standard and on time, to the ultimate benefit of all our clients.

We are determined to deliver to as many clients as possible by 31 December, and we are confident that the vast majority of people will get their payment before then. Removing the deadline will give us the flexibility to consider, next year and in the years after, whether payment in a different period during the winter would be more advantageous for more clients.

09:45  

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

“Code of Conduct for Councillors”

Meeting date: 5 October 2021

Ben Macpherson

I appreciate Mr Briggs’s point. Should the draft document that the Parliament is considering be agreed to, we will look at how that issue can be made clear in the training process. The member has raised a point of perception that is worth considering, and we will take it away and think about how we might liaise with stakeholders and colleagues with regard to training. I hope that that is satisfactory.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

“Code of Conduct for Councillors”

Meeting date: 5 October 2021

Ben Macpherson

Correct.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee

“Code of Conduct for Councillors”

Meeting date: 5 October 2021

Ben Macpherson

As Tony Romain set out, the position is that the councillor should not get into a situation where they can be lobbied. However, in a quasi-judicial setting such as a committee session in which papers are considered or presentations are made by both parties, due process must be followed. Of course, the quasi-judicial nature of the process and arrangement lends itself to different perspectives being heard. Do you have anything to add, Tony?