³ÉÈË¿ìÊÖ

I give an undertaking in good faith that I am pleased to engage on those points, on the amendments and on their themes ahead of stage 3, and I therefore ask members to vote for amendments 6 to 8, in my name.

Moving on to Willie Rennie’s amendment 29, I listened carefully to the points that he made in response to my opening remarks, and I want to engage further with him on those matters ahead of stage 3. I must emphasise the comments that were made during the debate on an earlier group: we must ensure that we have the necessary input and expertise from the business community and industry, and consider together whether there is a need for further independence. I am happy to engage further with Willie Rennie on the points raised in amendment 29, if he does not move it today. If he does, I encourage members to vote against it at this juncture.

I ask the same with regard to Ross Greer’s amendment 86. As I have stated, I would be grateful if Ross Greer did not move amendment 87, so that we can consider the issue together further, but if he does move it, I encourage members to vote against it. The same applies to Monica Lennon’s amendment 88 and Stephen Kerr’s amendments 89 and 90.

As I have said, I cannot support Pam Duncan-Glancy’s amendment 84, nor Stephen Kerr’s amendment 85, and I encourage members to vote against both.

Amendment 6 agreed to.

Amendment 84 moved—[Pam Duncan-Glancy].

As I emphasised in my answer to a supplementary question in yesterday’s topical question time, we believe and understand that it is important to have campuses in communities for reasons relating to accessibility and employment, and for people to have education on their doorstep in the community, which I also emphasised in my opening remarks. As you would expect, the SFC is engaged on these specific issues with the institutions that might be considering such measures.

It is not for me to interfere in particular areas. All I will say is that we are engaging collaboratively with the SFC on those points of consideration. We also take the position at a generic level that having campuses in communities is important in allowing young people and others to access education in their locality and for the employment that those institutions bring. We want all public assets to be fully utilised and to provide value for money, but that needs to be led by local choices and it must have regard to cross-campus collaboration.

The important thing to emphasise, as I have already touched on, is that we value the different campuses in communities and what they bring. We want to continue to support the college sector and what it offers. We need to make sure that there is cross-campus collaboration, but the campuses have a positive impact in the places that they are in. It is important that we emphasise that and that we appreciate their local impact on accessibility, employment and responding to local need. That is not something to think of as anything but a situation—[Interruption.] Sorry, I am a bit distracted by people coming into the room.

There is a necessity to think on a regional basis. In this role, I am looking forward to supporting regional initiatives and will seek to be responsive—in ways that I, and the Scottish Government, can be—to support skills development.

I listened to the earlier exchange between Mr Briggs and the SFC on clawback, and I know that there has been an interest in that issue throughout the pre-budget scrutiny. I note and will consider the points that Mr Greer has raised. I am not going to say any more on it just now, but I will state as a point of fact that there is a piece of primary legislation going through Parliament at the moment that is considering governance. I will leave it at that.

Because they are autonomous organisations, I will need to think carefully before I express any personal or Government view. I will need to take that point away and come back to the committee.

Thank you very much for the warm welcome, convener. It is really good to be back at the committee. Not so long ago, I was at the table in a different capacity for about a year. In recent times, I have been on the Criminal Justice Committee and have been unable to observe every session that you have undertaken, but I know that you have put a lot of work into budget scrutiny. I am glad to be here today to help you as you take that scrutiny forward.

One thing that I know about the committee is that we all agree that we want people to get the best education, not only for them but for the common good of our country in the here and now and in the future. That is why education that is free at the point of access and there so that people can fulfil their potential is so important.

My challenge, and our collective challenge, is to ensure that we protect that basic right while supporting the sector to adapt to a deeply challenging financial outlook and a very fast-changing world. I expect that we will explore those challenges and other matters in great depth and detail today, but I also want to take the time to add a little context.

We need to remember that people across Scotland have a great education system on their doorsteps. Our universities continue to punch well above their weight on international measures, with three Scottish universities—the University of Edinburgh, the University of Glasgow and the University of St Andrews—featuring in the top 200 of the 2025 Times Higher Education world university rankings. It will not have escaped people’s attention that the University of Dundee rose 12 places to joint 23rd in that guide, that it was top in the UK for bioengineering and that it was second for medicine and dentistry. It also jumped 26 spots to 26th in the Guardian guide. Those achievements are down to the commitment of all the staff in those remarkable institutions.

Our colleges are no less important, and they are equally impressive. Not only do they support people across Scotland to get the practical skills that our economy needs but they nurture skills that will define our economy going forward.

We have so much to be proud of. Since 2012-13, around 130,000 students have benefited every year from our commitment to free tuition. There were more than 25,000 modern apprenticeship starts in 2024-25, with a record number in training. Average student loan debts for Scottish students are the lowest in the UK—they are more than £35,000 lower on average than those of students from England. We have provided more than £1 billion-worth of support to students via grants and loans to ensure that the most disadvantaged have the same opportunities as everyone else.

In stating all that, I am not for a moment suggesting that there are not considerable challenges—there absolutely are, and we need to tackle them. However, it is important for us to recognise, as we go into this challenging period together—and I want to work with all of you—that there are lots of strengths to build on. A lot has been delivered and achieved that is highly commendable, and there are a lot of excellent staff in our universities and colleges, who deserve our praise and support.

I presume, convener, that you are referring to the reports that were released on Friday by the Scottish Funding Council.

I know that there is a shared interest around the table in our college sector thriving. For completeness, it is important to emphasise that I cannot discuss the specific circumstances of certain institutions that are in commercial negotiations, as those matters are subject to commercial confidentiality.

Of course, what was put forward in the reports that were published on Friday is significant. The Government will, in dialogue with the Scottish Funding Council, consider those matters, as it had been doing prior to publication of the reports.

There are a number of questions regarding the current financial year and preparation for the next budget, which I know that the committee has been analysing as part of its work; that is why we are here today. There is a process of internal engagement on budget negotiations within Government before the budget is published. That will happen in the period ahead of the next financial year, as it normally does, and there will be an internal dialogue whereby ministers with responsibility for education will, of course, advocate strongly on behalf of our portfolio.

The challenge for us all is that we are not going to be able to set a Scottish budget until early in the new year, because the UK budget is not happening until the end of November. However, there is time to go through the processes, and we will do so professionally and diligently.

I think that that is a fair ask, and I appreciate your understanding. I am happy to take that point away and to consider what written correspondence we may be able to provide to the committee to answer the point in any further way.