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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 5 August 2025
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Displaying 874 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework

Meeting date: 21 September 2021

Daniel Johnson

One of my worries with the national performance framework is that it is very broad, in terms of both how the objectives are framed and the number of measures that sit below those. I wonder whether there is a missing layer. For example, the national outcome for children and young people is:

“We grow up loved, safe and respected so that we realise our full potential”.

I do not think that anyone anywhere would disagree with that as an objective. When we go through the national framework, we then immediately descend into some quite detailed statistics. I wonder whether an intermediate layer is required, on how the overall objective will be achieved and on what measures will drive that. Ultimately, we have to discriminate between different measures, because some measures will essentially be input measures, while others will be output measures. Some measures will trail, and others will be early indicators. Without that strategic emphasis on what is more important and without differentiating between different types of measures, we just have a sea of data, which does not drive change or orient behaviour across government.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Daniel Johnson

Do the other witnesses have anything to add?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Daniel Johnson

I would like to follow up the discussion on the operation of the fiscal framework. The 2019-20 budget contained tax proposals that should have raised an additional £500 million, but, because of the block grant adjustment and the fiscal framework, only £148 million of additional funding came to the Scottish Government. My understanding of that is that we did not do such a good job of growing the number of taxpayers in Scotland or their ability to pay tax—in other words, how much money they were earning. Is that correct? If so, what does that tell us about the policies that are being pursued in Scotland to grow the tax base and earnings? Does it tell us something about the Scottish Government’s ability to use the big fiscal lever that it has, or does it, in fact, show that that lever is not really effective? I am trying to remember what I learned in economics in my first year at university on elasticity of demand and the tax rate. Does it tell us that people switch behaviour when we alter tax rates in Scotland?

I ask David Eiser to respond first, but I am interested in hearing from the other witnesses.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Daniel Johnson

Do Susan and David agree that we need to both prioritise enterprise support and increase its focus? Would you support that proposition?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Daniel Johnson

Please do.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Daniel Johnson

I take your point about the public sector, but a significant number of people—if not most people—who have been on furlough are employed by the private sector. What policy interventions would you like to see? Would they involve skills and retraining or perhaps job guarantee schemes? What interventions would the STUC like to take place to preserve private sector employment?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Daniel Johnson

I wonder whether you can identify any particular consequences. Are there areas of provision that you think are particularly exposed or that have suffered because of the funding shortfall?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Daniel Johnson

Are there any final thoughts before I move on?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Daniel Johnson

My questions follow on from what Gail Macgregor said about the level of funding for local authorities. First, on COSLA’s previous budget submission, you stated that there would be a £500 million shortfall after the budget revisions. Was that the case? If so, I would be interested to know what the consequences were, given what you have said about the difficulties that local authorities face in delivering core, statutory services on the basis of current funding.

Secondly, given that that budget process was undertaken midway through the pandemic and that many of the services that councils provide are fundamental, safety-net services, what is your current assessment of the increase in demand and, therefore, the current shortfall that local government faces?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2022-23: Public Finances and the Impact of Covid-19

Meeting date: 14 September 2021

Daniel Johnson

I am struggling to zero in on what my follow-up question should be, because so many interesting topics have been raised by the panel. That is a good problem to have.

I will start by examining the issues around inequality that were alluded to by the Fraser of Allander Institute in its submission. Unemployment data that was published today shows that unemployment is down but the number of jobs in the economy is still below pre-pandemic levels, which confirms what was going on before.

With furlough coming to an end, we need to be careful not to put ourselves in a position of false security by thinking that the situation with labour shortages means that there are no problems. In fact, we could have both problems: labour shortages and joblessness. Is that a correct assessment of the real risk? If so, how stubborn a problem could that be? Are there sufficient public policy measures in the programme for government—or possibly in the budget to come—to deal with joblessness and labour shortages in the economy?