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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 8 August 2025
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Displaying 875 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Daniel Johnson

The previous witnesses touched on the fact that there are already existing levers and vehicles in this area, such as the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015 and community asset transfer, and we discussed the fact that the bill does not re-examine or tweak any of those things. Do COSLA members have any interest in how we can make the process easier, more straightforward and beneficial in the interests of community wealth building and local authorities themselves?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Daniel Johnson

Again, however, that is more an expression of hope regarding what might be in the guidance rather than a suggestion for something that might be specified in the bill.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Daniel Johnson

Thank you. I will leave it there.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Daniel Johnson

Is it something you could look at?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Daniel Johnson

That sounds like general engagement, but I think that there is a need to really engage with the detail. I am interested in what prevents small businesses from applying for contracts, and what gets in the way of people and communities setting up businesses, which might begin as sole traders before growing into limited companies. We need to start thinking about those pipelines. Have those discussions taken place in the context of the bill? Could we go further and think about how we can bake that support into the way that government at all levels goes about its business, so that public procurement helps people to start up businesses and helps small businesses to grow?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Daniel Johnson

Good enterprise resource planning software should enable you to see the granular detail of what you are spending on businesses in which postcode areas, and that would allow you to aggregate and report spending on SMEs. That would probably do more than anything else to address the issue.

I have a blunt question. I am concerned about something that we have heard from the previous witnesses today and in previous meetings. What I have heard from you this morning is that the bill might require you to do an awful lot more consultation and produce more reports, but that it might not have any net effect. Is that something that you are concerned about?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is exactly my question.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Daniel Johnson

The point has been made that targets are really important and I think that that point is germane to that.

I take the view that, ultimately, community wealth building is about growing capital—financial capital and social capital—within communities that have a deficit of that. I would have thought that that would result in more people starting organisations of the sort that would like to be your members. Ultimately, I think that one of the things that you should see as a result of the bill is an increase in the number of small businesses. How did the Scottish Government engage with you to look at the mechanics of what might make that possible? Was that detailed? How much conversation has the Scottish Government had with you?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Daniel Johnson

I am thinking about the things that the bill could do and what you touched on there. The bill will require local authorities and other public bodies to do an additional set of consultation and produce a report. You seem to be suggesting that there is a convening power element. Should there be an obligation on local authorities, the Scottish Government and health boards to use that convening power to broker engagement, provide a forum and facilitate dialogue between community organisations, public institutions and, indeed, private sector organisations? Is that what you are suggesting?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 18 June 2025

Daniel Johnson

My final question is for you, Morven Taylor, particularly because you are from the housing sector. One of my concerns about the bill is that it talks in quite broad and general terms about community wealth building, but in communities that have high levels of deprivation there is a lack of fundamental capital, particularly housing infrastructure. Unless we address that, we will struggle to build community wealth in any meaningful way. Do we need to benchmark communities’ access to fundamental infrastructure of housing and transport and fundamental public services before engaging with concepts such as community wealth building?