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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 27 December 2025
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Displaying 1194 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Consumer Scotland

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Daniel Johnson

Before I bring in our deputy convener, Murdo Fraser has a supplementary question.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Consumer Scotland

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Daniel Johnson

I will come on to those points about engagement. From your response, it sounds as though you are measuring your influence on other parts of the public sector as an outcome, but are not measuring benefits to consumers. I think that most people would describe the former as an output rather than an outcome. In your opening statement, you described your objective as creating benefits to consumers in Scotland, but nothing in your answer really describes such benefits, unless I am missing something.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Consumer Scotland

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Daniel Johnson

Do you understand that, in terms of presentation, that is an issue for us? If we hear the chair of a board providing answers of a detailed operational nature, at least it is incumbent on us to ask whether there is an appropriate separation. This is not the first time that I have made that observation.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Consumer Scotland

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Daniel Johnson

Okay, so you have increased that proportion of your budget.

It strikes me that an awful lot of your answers have relied upon the work that you fund those organisations to do, as well as your investigations. However, you are still spending a substantial amount of money internally. Critically, of the money that is spent internally, only the money for two full-time equivalent posts is being spent on those investigations. Do you think that that balance of expenditure reflects the focus on outcomes that, overall, this committee is asking you to demonstrate?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Consumer Scotland

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Daniel Johnson

To cut through the subtext, people around this committee table can go to lots of places to get analysis and narration of public policy. However, when we see public money being spent, we want to see action and outcomes. That is our frustration. Particularly given that you stated that one of your top risks is stability, we wanted a clear demonstration of that.

Finally, Mr Wilson, it has been striking through this session that you have been the one providing a lot of the answers. When you have done that, you have used the word “we” an awful lot, in particular regarding quite detailed operational matters such as how the investigations and the research has been conducted and the effect that it has had. It is an important principle of governance that the chair and the board are independent of the body itself, so that they can provide oversight. That is particularly important, given that the public are trusting you to oversee the judicious use of public funds and taxpayers’ money.

Given your closeness and proximity to the body, do you believe that you have sufficient independence from the day-to-day operations in your role as chair of the board?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Consumer Scotland

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Daniel Johnson

In your annual report last year, you stated that one of your primary risks relates to stability of funding from the Scottish Government. Given that you will produce your annual report a matter of weeks before the Scottish Government will introduce its budget, how is the Scottish Government supposed to set its budget with confidence if it does not know how you have estimated your performance in the previous financial year?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Consumer Scotland

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Daniel Johnson

Mr Wilson, you stated that your key focus is on outcomes for consumers in Scotland. Consumer Scotland’s statutory aims are to reduce harm to consumers, to increase consumer confidence, to increase the extent to which consumer matters are taken into account by public bodies, to promote sustainable practices in the use of goods by consumers and to otherwise advance wellbeing. There is a heavy emphasis on consumers, but how do you measure those outcomes? In your annual report last year, there is an awful lot of articulation of outputs but not necessarily any measures of outcomes for consumers.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Consumer Scotland

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Daniel Johnson

At this point, I will hand over to Gordon MacDonald.

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Consumer Scotland

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Daniel Johnson

That is how you assess your output. Again, what I have to go off is last year’s annual report rather than this year’s report. On page 15, you outline some of your publications and outputs. It states that you produced only 34 publications, which is just more than one publication per employee in your organisation. Of those publications, nine were press releases and two were blog posts. The figures for your website interactions show just under 19,000 total views, and between 3,000 and 4,000 unique users, with an average engagement time of two minutes. You are judging yourself on your influence. Even if that concerns your influence on other organisations, not even 4,000 people in Scotland are using your information. Is that a sign of success, and will this year’s annual report show substantial improvement on those figures?

Economy and Fair Work Committee [Draft]

Consumer Scotland

Meeting date: 29 October 2025

Daniel Johnson

Can I briefly follow up? You have had an increase in staff of almost 50 per cent. Has the value of your grants to external organisations increased by 50 per cent?