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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 28 December 2025
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Displaying 805 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Ruth Maguire

That is a hugely important point.

The committee heard from an academic who gave very helpful and specific reasons with regard to the challenges. There was one sentence about the human cost of this. I think that we all want to have those with expertise at the table, but we must never forget the people who are affected. Everybody dealing with the topic needs to be looking in the eyes of the families who are affected. I seek assurance from the minister on that matter.

I will leave my remarks there for now.

I move amendment 124.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Ruth Maguire

Our processes are the vehicle that we have in order to legislate. I draw members’ attention to the letter from Victim Support, which was signed by 65 families. It is a small number of families—thankfully—who are affected, but that letter provides access to direct lived experience, and we can see the impact. I do not think that there needs to be a whole fresh consultation. We know what the problem is, and there is access to people with lived experience. We just need a bit of urgency to get folk round the table and work our way through the issue. It is not beyond us—it cannot be beyond us.

Amendment 124, by agreement, withdrawn.

10:15  

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Ruth Maguire

I absolutely understand what the minister is saying. Given that the children’s hearings system is a welfare system, I wonder whether restorative justice would play a part in understanding the impact that actions had had on the other child who had been harmed.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Ruth Maguire

I will make more substantive remarks in the later group, with your permission, convener. At the moment, I will say that the focus of the bill is children and their rights. Children can cause harm or be victims of criminal harm, either directly or as a result of a sibling or family member being harmed. All of those children matter, no matter what they are experiencing that has led them to come into contact with the care or justice system.

They should be equally entitled to their rights. I acknowledge that balancing rights is not straightforward, and I hear all the reasons to not take action, but it cannot be beyond us to uphold and promote the rights of all children. This must not be put in the too-difficult box because of the challenges around finding a solution to what is most definitely a problem that causes trauma and stress to families and siblings. That is all that I want to say just now.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Ruth Maguire

Will the minister take an intervention about the use of social media by peers or aunties, for example?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 31 January 2024

Ruth Maguire

Thank you, convener. Forgive me for that.

I understand the argument that is being put. However, if we think about rights and children’s rights, surely we are not suggesting that a cousin’s or a friend’s right to broadcast their feelings about the deceased is more important than the right of the family of the deceased to privacy in family life? That is a challenge.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Ruth Maguire

It could be said that the amendments are completely at odds with the principle of the bill and with keeping the Promise. How would you respond to that?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 2

Meeting date: 24 January 2024

Ruth Maguire

Minister, you laid out in detail what is available, which was certainly helpful to hear. However, the committee heard about a potential issue with children accepting referral on offence grounds without understanding what repercussions that could have for later life. The example was given that, if a child was in trouble, they could accept a referral on offence grounds, as they would be given support and intervention. It can feel like the best thing to do, and often it will be. I am not making a judgment on that, but a potential issue has been identified.

Although the answer might not be in the blanket approach of offering legal aid, would you commit to having a further look at the problem that has been highlighted to the committee? It may be that something in the existing system could be tweaked that would make it better for children who are accepting offence grounds.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Ruth Maguire

You were very generous in indicating that we might have been at school at the same time—I think that I was a tiny bit ahead of you, but thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25 and Education Reform

Meeting date: 17 January 2024

Ruth Maguire

That is very polite.