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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 22 June 2025
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Displaying 895 contributions

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Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Fulton MacGregor

When many of the projected cost implications relate to improvements to people’s working lives, it is difficult for us to be against them.

I, too, have heard that Kilmarnock prison is very well run. That is worth noting.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Thank you.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Fulton MacGregor

The Government seems to be moving in that direction; we will scrutinise and vote on the bill as it comes through Parliament shortly. Has the flat cash settlement come too early for that bill’s operation, or is there a hope that it could, inevitably, reduce the budget, which is perhaps why there is a flat cash settlement for the Prison Service?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Thank you for that.

Convener, I have another area of questioning, but I do not know whether you want me to do it just now, or—

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Fulton MacGregor

It is.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-budget Scrutiny 2023-24

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Fulton MacGregor

I want to follow up on Russell Findlay’s line of questioning. That would almost create a conflict. The committee and the Government will want to try to find ways to save costs, but many of the cost implications of the transfer seem to be for factors that most of us would support. You mentioned offering more training, better holidays and better pay. As politicians, we would want to support those aims. In the interests of time, I am really just looking for your comment on that point. I can see that you have been considering it.

Criminal Justice Committee

National Care Service (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 9 November 2022

Fulton MacGregor

I agree with that as well. It would certainly do no harm for this committee to look at the issues. We might need to have a wider conversation about how we feed back to the Health, Social Care and Sport Committee, but, given that community and criminal justice comes under our remit, it is appropriate for us to hold a one-off session.

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Fulton MacGregor

Good morning and thanks very much for your evidence, so far.

My question is along the same lines as Pauline McNeill’s, and is about HMPs Addiewell and Kilmarnock, so a lot of it has been covered. I was looking back to 2016 and I found a question that I asked, to which the answer was that the private finance initiative payments on Addiewell were going to cost taxpayers nearly £1 billion. I assume—going back to your answer earlier—that the cost has gone up from that. It is an absolutely ridiculous amount.

Can you confirm that with RPI currently at 12.6 per cent you will be liable for something approaching 14 per cent of the cost of HMP Addiewell? On the back of what you said about HMP Kilmarnock, is it time, or are there plans afoot, to bring Addiewell back into the public sector, as well?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Fulton MacGregor

The final question that I want to ask is one that I asked the previous panel and the panels last week. It is about your interlinking with the other justice agencies. You heard this morning’s evidence, and I assume that you tuned into the police’s and the fire service’s evidence last week. You all seem to say very similar things; it is a very bleak picture, and there is no getting away from that. Have you thought about how a flat cash settlement will impact on the police, the courts service—from which we have heard this morning—the Scottish Fire and Rescue Service and other criminal justice agencies? How do you take that into account in your budget considerations?

Criminal Justice Committee

Pre-Budget Scrutiny 2022-23

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Fulton MacGregor

I had a supplementary to Pauline McNeill’s question, but it has partly been covered. I would still like to ask it, but I can come in later.