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Good morning to Emma and Kate—it is good to see you both.

Kate, you mentioned the system that would need to be in place around bail if the legislation was going to work. That is probably the crux of the matter. If we are serious about reducing the numbers of those on remand, we do not—as you have both articulated—want to put people more at risk because there are no robust safeguards in place.

Can you tell us what that system might look like with regard to people who are on bail? Which bits of the bill are good in that regard? Do we need to go a bit further?

I will come to you in a wee minute, Emma. Kate, I wonder how we might achieve that. If we go back to the provisions in the bill around input from justice social work—which I know you will be aware of, and it is a big part of the bill—is there anything in there that would allow justice social workers at that stage to bring in agencies such as yours or Scottish Women’s Aid or other organisations that work with victims? Is that the way in? I do not think that that could be made a statutory duty, but could it be developed in practice? Is that how you think what you have just outlined could be achieved?

I thank Lesley McAra for her response. She has articulated my thoughts on the matter pretty well. Although social work services were not able to commit to it when the various organisations met us recently, it would make sense for there to be a separate team. Therefore, we are talking about significant resource implications and the committee will need to take that into account when it speaks to the Cabinet Secretary for Justice. I would be happy to take that forward.

The convener said to be brief. My final question has the same basis but the witnesses might not be able to answer it. In work that the committee is doing separately, there is also discussion about the possibility of criminal justice social work going over to the national care service—I can see by some nods that the witnesses are aware of that. What impact might that have on the discussion that we have just had?

In light of what the convener said, I ask the witnesses to be as brief as possible.

That reflects other evidence that we have heard in that area, because the proposals are at a very early stage.

I am happy for the other witnesses to answer, convener, or to leave it at that, at your discretion.

Similar to the question that I asked Kate Wallace, and to dig a bit more, do you think that part of the provisions around the powers for justice social work should be that, if there is a specific victim or victims—which might not always be the case—the assessment must include a plan for how that person or persons can be kept safe? This is obviously an area that you deal with.

On a point of order, convener. Although Dr Graham was happy to answer it, I am not sure that my colleague Russell Findlay’s question to her was appropriate. The committee often hears from people who are councillors or who work with the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities and therefore have specific party allegiances. I have not formed my discourse on this point, but I am not sure that that was an appropriate line of questioning or build-up to the question. I therefore seek your advice or that of the clerk.

I hope that you are not too tired after last night, minister.

Thank you for clarifying that. You will know that that is not a particularly popular idea in the areas of justice and of children and families—I am talking about those two areas and not about adult social work. People want the Government to take them along.

If the Government and Cabinet have decided that that transfer is a good idea but the consultation gets a load of responses that are not in favour of it, how much will that weigh on the final decision about the legislation?

Thanks, convener. I was not expecting to get back in, so I appreciate that.

How will you capture the lived experience that you have spoken about, minister? I think that the Government is doing a fantastic job with the adult social care part of this. I have seen a lot of the work that you are doing, and lived experience is coming through loud and clear in relation to that. We heard a lot about that at the cross-party group meeting that you referred to earlier.

However, do you have any thoughts—we are coming to the end of this session, so you might have to write to us about this—about how to hear about the lived experience of criminal justice service users and their views on whether they like the services just now or whether they would like the workers who support them to be part of a national care service? I know that you spoke about an individual and the 15 folk who are involved in supporting him. Do you have any ideas about how, on a larger scale with justice service users, you might do what you are doing now with adult social care service users?

That is reassuring.