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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 June 2025
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Displaying 2099 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Mairi Gougeon

As I just outlined in relation to the proposal by the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee, I want to consider the issue further and take advice on it. I will then follow up with the committee on when we could provide an outline of what the plan will include.

It is important to remember that co-development with farmers and crofters is critical to absolutely everything that we are doing in the bill and to all the secondary legislation that we will bring forward, including the detail of the enhanced measures and the tiers of the future framework. A just transition is critical to all of that as well.

We want to develop schemes that we know will work and that will deliver the objectives that we have set out in the bill, but we want to do so in a way that works for farmers and crofters. We want to develop that with them. The detail that comes from doing that, and from following what we have set out in the route map about when information will become available, will, ultimately, populate the rural support plan. I like to think that, by the time the plan comes forward, it will not be a surprise to anyone, because we have outlined in the route map when different parts of the information about the future framework will be published and become available.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Mairi Gougeon

The first point to clarify is that we need the powers that are in the bill before we can formally bring forward the rural support plan.

However, I understand what the convener has set out in relation to the proposal by the Delegated Powers and Law Reform Committee. I would like to take more advice on that to see whether, and when, we might be able to bring forward at least a draft of the plan. I am happy to follow up on that with the committee and provide more information on when we could provide an initial draft of the rural support plan.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Mairi Gougeon

We have said that we need the new powers in the bill in order to introduce the plan and that we intend to introduce it in 2025.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Mairi Gougeon

I absolutely appreciate that, but that is where what we have set out in the route map comes in. I am not focusing on the rural support plan at the moment because, as John Kerr has outlined, a lot of what is in the route map will be part of that. There is information there, and more information will be coming along the timeline that we have set out. The rural support plan will not change what we have in the route map; it is about bringing together the different pieces and showing how we will deliver on the vision and against our objectives.

Another important point that you have raised, but which I have not touched on, relates to monitoring and evaluation against the objectives that we have set out. That will be built into how we move forward, because we need to know that we are improving and to find a way of measuring and evaluating that so that we know that we are delivering on the bill鈥檚 objectives. That will, of course, be embedded in the work that we are taking forward.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Mairi Gougeon

I hope that we have been able to evidence that through the work that we have undertaken so far and, ultimately, through all the commitments that we have made throughout the whole process about how we develop policy. We want to do this with farmers and crofters because, as I have said a number of times today, they know their own business best. It is critical that any future system provides them with the flexibility to enable them to make the choices and undertake the measures that will work for their businesses. You can see some of those measures鈥攚e have published what some of that might look like. It is absolutely built in to everything that we do and everything that we have set out as part of the route map and the information that we are providing. What we are introducing ultimately has to be deliverable and it has to work for our farmers and crofters. It is in our best interests to continue that work with them to ensure that we get this right.

The points that you touched on and that I highlighted in previous responses to Rhoda Grant, including some of the points that are set out in section 26, enable us to do that. It is about having that consultation and engagement and, of course, reviewing the code, because, as we have discussed already today, things can change and improve in this space鈥攖hings are developing all the time.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Mairi Gougeon

Again, if the committee has any particular views on the review period, I am happy to look at that point and consider it, but I want to clarify that we have already set out our expectations for support going forward, including the minimum standards that we are expecting, what conditions will apply to support from 2025 and what support will be introduced in 2026. I just want to be absolutely clear on that. If there are any other views on the review period, I am happy to consider them.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Mairi Gougeon

Again, I do not know whether the committee has any particular comments or suggestions to make on that. I believe that the matters to be considered, which we have set out in section 3, cover what we need that to do, but, again, I ask the committee whether its members have any particular suggestions to make or whether they feel that anything is missing from the list that should be considered but has not been.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Mairi Gougeon

I want to address your first point about the list of matters to be considered and highlight and emphasise the fact that all the areas that you have mentioned are hugely important. More policies and legislation are coming down the line that are closely interlinked with agriculture and the future framework that we will have. I want to reassure the committee that we are considering all the policies that you have outlined, some of which are mentioned in the policy memorandum. The fact is that we must adhere to legislation that is already in place, and our rural support plan proposals are not being developed in isolation, without any consideration being given to those areas, given that, as I have mentioned, so many of them are integral to what we are doing.

I am sorry鈥攚hat was the second matter that you raised?

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 21 February 2024

Mairi Gougeon

It is important to have it for exactly for that reason. It is about ensuring that we are looking at those matters and that they feature as part of the rural support plan.

If we look at the matters that are set out, we see that we have our objectives, the climate change plan, agriculture, forestry and rural land use. From the evidence that you have taken and from some of the discussion that we have had today, we know that there are very specific things that people would like to be included in there. Of course, we take a lot of those matters into consideration鈥攁nd we have to, where that is legally binding and where we are working across other areas of policy. However, it is important for us to at least set out the matters that we would be looking to include as part of the plan rather than not do that.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2024-25

Meeting date: 30 January 2024

Mairi Gougeon

We had 拢26.6 million available in last year鈥檚 budget.