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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 14 August 2025
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Displaying 2119 contributions

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Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I completely appreciate your point. I point out that that word is being used specifically in relation to the regulations, but I acknowledge the point that you make. The issue is not about exploitation; it is about how we ensure that the species recovers. That is exactly where we want to be. Salmon is an iconic Scottish species, and we want to enhance it and reverse some of the trends that we have seen so that the populations grow. That is the ultimate goal, and that work is broadly covered by what we are trying to achieve across the wild salmon strategy. We know that no single issue is causing the decline in populations. The issue is multifaceted, which means that we need a broader approach.

As I said, I will provide the committee with further information. I hope that you will find it helpful, as it will allow you to see the action that we are taking across a number of areas to address the pressures where they exist.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I thank committee members for the points that they have raised.

There are a number of issues bound up in this. We have talked about the data and about working from the best evidence that we have. As Dr Middlemas outlined, some of that takes more time to build up and develop. This is not necessarily about resources that we can easily put in place to fix things; it requires time and constant improvements to the methodology and how we assess that evidence.

We have to look at the bigger picture and the wider context of the work that we have talked about today—the wild salmon strategy and the implementation plan. I have already said that I am happy to write to the committee and provide more information on that, so that you can see—

10:15  

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I would be happy to follow that up and to set out in writing the figures that I outlined to the convener.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Mairi Gougeon

Discussions on the annual delivery plan are about looking at priorities for the coming year and how to best allocate resources within that year. We have had discussions on this previously, convener, and I have not received final advice in relation to potential next steps for the proposal. As we have said in previous conversations, it would feature in the wider discussion that we will have about overall priorities. However, it is important for me to be in receipt of that advice first.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Mairi Gougeon

I appreciate the discussion that we have had and the questions that committee members have asked.

As far as withdrawing and resubmitting the instrument is concerned, we would have to look at the basis of that, first of all, and then I would have to take advice to see what the timescales would be. After all, we cannot forget the other part of these regulations, which relates to the Annan. That will come into effect for the early season, which is from 25 February, so I do not think that we would have the time to take the instrument away and resubmit it. Again, the question is, what would be the basis for our doing that and what information would we base that on?

As I have mentioned in my comments to committee members, we are aware of 18 fisheries on the Endrick. We updated what we had on the back of information that I believed we had received from Loch Lomond Angling Improvement Association. As for the association having further evidence and feeling that the information that we have is not correct, we have not, as I understand it, received any further information from the association in spite of our asking for it.

I have serious concerns about the motion being annulled today. Much of that concern has been outlined by Fisheries Management Scotland, because such a move will affect a number of rivers. As I have mentioned, 12 rivers are due to be downgraded, but it would also affect the three that would no longer have mandatory catch and release, and there would also be the impact on the Annan and the economic impact of not implementing the instrument.

That is why I urge the committee not to support the motion to annul today. We are working with the best evidence that we have, and it is vital that the regulations proceed.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Mairi Gougeon

Ideally, we want to have the plans for that in place as soon as possible, because we want to have the funds up and running so that people can apply early in the financial year. We appreciate that, if there were schemes for which people needed, say, planning permission, that would take time, so the earlier we are able to say what will and will not form part of the schemes, the earlier people can apply and we can ensure that we use that money.

We are working at pace to see, first of all, what the biggest requirement is but also what is deliverable within that timeframe. I am more than happy to keep the committee updated on that, because I appreciate the interest that there will be in those capital funds.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Mairi Gougeon

Yes.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Mairi Gougeon

You are absolutely right. Obviously, the situation in the first year was disappointing. In one of my appearances at the committee to discuss the budget, I think that I said that we had seen a low level of claims initially. I understand that it is a new scheme and that it is very much demand led. However, over the past few years, demand has gradually increased as more people have become aware of the scheme and as we are approaching the point at which some of the requirements of the whole-farm plan will become mandatory. I completely agree with your point. It is really important that we continue to provide support, and we have allocated funding for that in the coming year. The trajectory that we have seen has been positive.

The number of claims that we are seeing this year is probably not as high as the number that we saw last year, but we still have a couple of months to go. In the final period in the claims window, there is always a large uptick in the number of people processing their claims.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Mairi Gougeon

You raise some important points. As you say, during the passage of the bill, we talked about the importance of soil health and soil biology, and some amendments recognised that. Nevertheless, there are no plans to extend what is available through PSF at the moment. We are focusing on the core audits that are currently available, and I do not expect that to change dramatically if we continue the scheme in the coming year. However, the on-going work and support is important, and we have touched on that in some of our previous discussions. It is all very well to undertake the analysis when it comes to carbon audits, but the work that is undertaken afterwards and the advice that is made available are important.

We are not directly supporting that through the funding schemes that we have available, but, as we look to implement the future tiers of the support framework and the continuous learning and development that we talked about during the passage of the Agriculture and Rural Communities (Scotland) Act 2024, that will feature heavily and it will be really important.

Rural Affairs and Islands Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26

Meeting date: 22 January 2025

Mairi Gougeon

There are a few issues to highlight in that respect. First, I absolutely recognise your point about the importance of forestry and the wider industry. According to statistics that we published fairly recently, the industry is worth more than £1 billion to our economy and employs more than 34,000 people. The fact that the UK is one of the biggest importers of timber always strikes me as not seeming right. There is so much more that we can and should do to utilise our home-grown resources, precisely because of all the challenges that you mentioned. It is really important that we are able to have continuity of supply, and I recognise that building the industry is very important.

We have two forestry agencies: Scottish Forestry and Forestry and Land Scotland. Scottish Forestry’s budget has increased by 18 per cent, as that is where the majority of the funding for the woodland creation grants come from. You are right about Forestry and Land Scotland, but I would point out that, overall, there has been a 2 per cent increase compared with the budget in previous years. Of course, there are some differences in how the budget is communicated this year, because we have made in-year transfers. Forestry and Land Scotland is a key partner in peatland restoration and other important areas of work, but the important element that we should be focusing on is the increase in the woodland creation grant and the funding available for that, as it will enable us to plant more hectares of woodland.