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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 August 2025
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Displaying 2119 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Everything that you have outlined is of absolute importance to us. Karen Adam has also talked about the importance of feeding lived experience into the process. I see that as vital and will ensure that we are as inclusive as possible. I do not want the good food nation plans, as we develop them, to be something that we are thrusting on people. They should feel like they belong to everyone, especially in relation to the local authorities. We want to ensure that, ultimately, the plans deliver the outcomes that we want them to deliver, and we will achieve that only if we have that participation and people feel like they are actively involved in the plans.

There have been lots of different suggestions in the evidence about how that could take place. We try to do that鈥攚e already continually engage with our stakeholders. I do not want the consultation to be about sticking something online and hoping that somebody ticks a few boxes. We need to go out and make sure that engagement is strong, so that we get that active participation.

A good example of work that we have done recently in that area is our consultation process on the local food strategy. I do not know whether officials could give more detail on that. Can you talk about the approach that we took? I think that it was exactly what Jenni Minto referred to鈥攅nsuring that we included the lived experience.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I hope that I have been able to outline the rationale for our decision about how to incorporate that right into Scots law. That was based on the recommendations that we received. Rather than separating out one individual right, and given that the rights are indivisible in so many ways鈥攖he rights and obligations that we are looking to incorporate in the human rights bill are interrelated鈥攖hat bill was considered to be the appropriate vehicle to take that right forward. We made the provision that I referenced in section 3 of the bill to recognise that and to ensure that we have regard to that right in the future.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Essentially, the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill is a framework bill. It will underpin the work that we are currently undertaking, but it will also ensure that we address a lot of issues that we see in a coherent way across the Government and with other public authorities. A lot of the issues that you have raised could well be looked at or addressed in the light of the outcomes that we would want to have as part of the good food nation plans. The bill is not the place for us to specifically set those out because, as I have outlined, it is a framework bill.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Again, I highlight section 3 of the bill, which says that we must have regard to the right to food. Furthermore, through all the policy initiatives that I have talked about, we are already trying to ensure that we deliver on that human right. That is very much the intention, so, regardless of when the human rights bill is introduced鈥攚hich we have committed to do in this parliamentary session鈥攚e will still be doing what we can to ensure that we are delivering on that right.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I know, from the evidence that the committee has received, that some people would like the right to food to be incorporated in the bill, but others have asked whether reference to the right to food could strengthen it. I feel that the bill is adequate in that respect, but I will consider any recommendations that the committee makes in its stage 1 report.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Mairi Gougeon

It is a choice. We are dealing with it through the human rights legislation because of the rationale that I have set out. It is not that it would be legally impossible for that right to be in this bill. However, given the interdependencies and the fact that it ties in with so many other rights, it makes sense for that to form part of the human rights legislation. That decision is based on the recommendations that we have received.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Mairi Gougeon

All of that will be critically important as we develop our good food nation plans. As we have previously discussed, food policy is cross-cutting. We want to ensure that our food is produced in an environmentally sustainable way. That will all feature as we develop our good food nation plans.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I reiterate that, with all the issues that you have raised, it is not a case of passing the buck. If anything, what we are trying to do through the Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill and the framework legislation is the complete opposite of that.

We want to provide a coherent basis for working across Government and between different public authorities. That is why I have, for example, re-established the ministerial working group on food. We have not yet had our first meeting, because I was interested in getting the stage 1 report from the committee and looking at the outcomes of that before we met, to make sure that we address the issues across the Government, as well. I give you an assurance on that point.

All the issues that you talked about are critically important. I recognise some of the points that you made, which were raised in evidence that the committee heard. We are, of course, committed to addressing those points.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Two different things are probably being conflated. We have a framework bill that will enable all the work that you are talking about to happen, and the further details鈥攖he outcomes, measures and indicators鈥攚ill all be set out in the good food nation plans. We cannot lose sight of the fact that, as I have said, the bill may appear narrow in scope, but it is absolutely fundamental to enabling us to deliver on our ambition to become a good food nation. As I have said, the good food nation plans will set out the details鈥攖he outcomes, measures and indicators鈥攐f what we will do to tackle some of the challenges that we face, how we are working across all the different policies and, ultimately, how we will measure that and ensure that we are on the road to success in that regard.

A lot of work is under way anyway. You talked about the concern that we would not listen to stakeholders. That is absolutely not the case. I go back to a point that I made in response to a previous question. We are in constant dialogue with our stakeholders. We have listened to the evidence that the committee has heard so far, and we are, of course, keen to see any recommendations that the committee makes in its stage 1 report. I do not want to prejudge that. We will, of course, consider that report carefully.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Good Food Nation (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 23 February 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I should point out that, as this is a framework bill, it is not the place to set out these things individually. It also underpins the work that we are already doing; it is not as if these problems are not being addressed. I have talked about our food for life programme, and there is also the local food strategy. We consulted on that strategy towards the end of last year and we are currently analysing the responses.

This gets to the root of some of the issues that you have raised and what exactly we are trying to address, because the bill itself underpins that work and provides the enabling framework to ensure that it happens and that our policy is more coherent. We are addressing all those issues.