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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 July 2025
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Displaying 2114 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

But again—

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We made that policy decision and set out right from the start that we wanted to remain aligned with the EU. Ultimately, we want to do that for our reaccession, but we also want to maintain the standards that have been set by the EU, and to go further than that if we can and if we feel that it is appropriate. We think that that is an important starting point. Even when it comes to facilitating trade, problems have emerged where there has not been a commitment to maintaining such alignment. That is where we are coming from on that.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Yes, we still have that concern about the Subsidy Control Act 2022, because no amendments were made to resolve any of the concerns that we raised in relation to it.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

In relation to EU law?

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

That is part of the problem with the retained EU law bill, because so much of it is relevant to the agriculture and islands portfolio, in particular, to this committee and to the Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee. To quantify that, you will, no doubt, be aware of the response of Food Standards Scotland to the publication of that bill. It would be a massive undertaking if we had to replace retained EU law in that area, because the timescale for that is the end of December next year.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Yes—that is no problem, convener.

I go back to what I said earlier: the common frameworks in themselves will not address that problem, because it is about the mechanism that we are dealing with. If we take a different position from that of the UK Government, it is about how we manage that divergence and what it might look like, and how we consider the implications of that. It does not replace our normal process of policy development or engagement with stakeholders.

What Rachael Hamilton describes is an issue that I encounter in the round, across my portfolio. We deal with stakeholders who have different, and sometimes very polarised, views. We have to listen to those views—that is part of my role and responsibility—and determine how we are going to take a policy forward. The common frameworks in themselves do not replace that process.

With regard to the process for exclusions, it is important that we learn lessons. As George Burgess said, the single-use plastics exclusion was the first time that we had been through the process and really tested the waters. I think that it is fair to say that the issue was more on the UK Government’s side. When it brought the regulations forward, there was a gap in their implementation and the regulations were narrower in scope than what we had had. Again, all that we can do is learn the lessons from how that example was taken through as we look to deal with similar issues in the future.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Euan Page will come in on that point.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We have had more powers in relation to our decision making as a result of what has flowed through following our leaving the EU. However, the common frameworks, in and of themselves, do not give us more powers; they set out a way for us to collaborate and work with each other in managing policy divergence. I hope that that makes sense and answers your question.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

I would be happy to come back to the committee if I think of specific examples of that. As I have said, the frameworks build on existing models where we have strong collaboration. That is evident in the framework on animal health and welfare. We work with a number of groups because, when it comes to animal health, diseases do not respect borders. It is important that we work together and that we have cross-collaboration.

If there are further examples that could be provided, I would be happy to follow up on that with the committee—unless George Burgess has any examples that he can give.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

The development of the common frameworks has been a really positive piece of work. I know that I will be coming back to the committee in relation to the joint fisheries statement. That example shows that we can work together well.

It is just frustrating—I am thinking of some of the examples that I gave earlier—when the process is undermined or not quite adhered to. If all four Governments commit to the process and adhere to it, it can offer a positive model of co-operation and collaboration between Governments, which could be used more widely across different areas.