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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 2 July 2025
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Displaying 2114 contributions

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Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Yes, because it is the legislation. The common frameworks are not a legislative mechanism; instead, they are a mechanism through which we have all agreed to work as a means of collaboration and on the basis that we are collaborating with each other as equals. That is where I come back to the concerns about the UK Internal Market Act 2020 and the Subsidy Control Act 2022. They undermine that process. Indeed, that has been recognised through the work that the House of Lords has done on the issue, too.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

That is what I have been saying. We still have that ability, and the common frameworks do not change that.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

As I said, that is a point that I have taken strongly from the evidence that this committee and the House of Lords committee heard. I know that, broadly, everyone thinks there should be greater opportunity for stakeholder engagement in the frameworks, and I am more than happy to consider particular suggestions from the committee about stakeholder engagement. As I said, we still need to be able to have free and frank discussion with other Administrations in the UK.

I say again that the process is not replacing the normal stakeholder engagement that we have. Again, I will be more than happy to hear the committee’s comments.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Absolutely.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

In this area, in particular, the common frameworks that we have set out essentially replicate mechanisms that were already in place. Although we are trying to work through the common frameworks on an interim basis until they have been through the scrutiny process and are agreed, they build on the existing mechanisms and our previous terms of engagement with the UK Government.

The process is not an entirely new one for us. If we look at the environment, food and rural affairs, in particular, and the way in which we have worked with the UK Government, it can be seen that we have had in place for some time the interministerial group, in which we have talked through some of the issues. In a sense, the common frameworks formalise some of the existing structures.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

It is fair to say that we are probably still learning lessons and that the frameworks still need to be embedded.

There are some examples of where the common frameworks process has been used, particularly when we look at the exclusions process in the United Kingdom Internal Market Act 2020—I do not know whether we will cover that later in the evidence session. We have used the exclusions process once so far, in relation to single-use plastics.

However, we have also seen examples in which, despite all four Administrations agreeing to the process and agreeing to work in collaboration, the process has not been adhered to. An example of that relates to the UK Government’s Genetic Technology (Precision Breeding) Bill. The process should have been used for that but, instead, it started the other way round. The bill was published without discussion having taken place with the other Administrations in the UK.

With some of these areas, it is important, as we work through the process, that we learn how we should engage with one another. However, again, we are still very much working our way through that.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

If it would be helpful, George Burgess can probably provide an example of how they are operating at the moment, in comparison to how things would have worked before.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

We engage regularly with our stakeholders anyway where such issues can be raised. That would be the forum in which we would discuss the policies that we are seeking to develop or take forward. I do not know whether that answers your question.

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

To be honest, that is the problem right across the piece—

Rural Affairs, Islands and Natural Environment Committee

Common Frameworks

Meeting date: 2 November 2022

Mairi Gougeon

Absolutely, and the framework would not change that position. You have given one example, but if the committee wants further details on that aspect, I will be happy to write to it about the decisions that we have taken. That position would not be impacted by the framework.