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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 26 August 2025
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Displaying 1525 contributions

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Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 13 June 2023

Monica Lennon

Does Mr Page want to add to that?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Monica Lennon

Yes, thank you, convener.

Both panels have talked us through the new institutional arrangements, how they are working and how they might be improved. I know that we are only a year in, but I am keen to pick up an issue that was recently raised in the Parliament. According to board papers that have become public, the former chair of ScotRail, Chris Gibb, who was also the chief executive officer of Scottish Rail Holdings—I hope that I have got that correct; he is no longer in those roles—raised concerns about micromanagement by the Scottish ministers, advisers and officials. David Lowrie, do you recognise that characterisation?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Monica Lennon

Let me just get this right. Back in 2022, you were the chief financial officer.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Monica Lennon

I am returning to the issue of antisocial behaviour. Witnesses on the first panel told us about some challenges and concerns. Mick Hogg of the RMT suggested that that behaviour is getting out of control. He does not want to be the person who says, “I told you so,” but he said that something really serious might happen and that there could be loss of life in the future.

Joanne Maguire, you have responsibility for safety so perhaps you can kick off. What are the challenges of antisocial behaviour? What is causing it, and what impact does it have on passengers and staff?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Monica Lennon

You have made a really important point. In our earlier session, we discussed the forthcoming summit on violence in schools. A joined-up approach would be smart. That has been helpful.

What more could we in Parliament do, and what more can be done across Government? I am looking back at what Jenny Gilruth said last year about discussions between ministers—in particular, transport and justice ministers—on whether more legislation is required. Clearly, there is a frustration that offenders, including persistent offenders, cause havoc then get back on the train hours or days later. Could legislation play a useful part in better managing the access to Scotland’s railways of persistent offenders who cause violent and serious disorder?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Monica Lennon

That is great. If you cannot give us the numbers today, could you write to us to keep us informed?

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Monica Lennon

I refer to my entry in the register of members’ interests as a member of the RMT parliamentary group as well as Unite the Union. I mention that, because “A Vision for Scotland’s Railways”, which has been referred to, was co-authored by Unite, and I might have a question about that.

Does the panel have a view on how the new institutional arrangements for the provision of ScotRail’s services are working? Are the roles and lines of communication between Scottish ministers, Transport Scotland, Scottish Rail Holdings and ScotRail sufficiently clear and well understood to ensure that the focus remains on current and future service delivery? If not, how could things be improved? I will start with Mick Hogg.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Monica Lennon

Safety is critical.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Monica Lennon

I will let you back in, and then I will have to hand back to the convener, because we are watching the clock.

Net Zero, Energy and Transport Committee

Transfer of Operation of ScotRail

Meeting date: 30 May 2023

Monica Lennon

I am concerned about what the witnesses—especially Mick Hogg—have said about not wanting to say to future ministers, when someone has lost their life on Scotland’s railways as a result of antisocial behaviour, “Told you so.”

I looked back at the evidence that we took from Jenny Gilruth and Government officials. The issue of the trends that we are seeing was raised, along with the limitations on the British Transport Police and the particular concerns about the safety of women and girls on trains and at stations. That was supposed to be looked at as part of a national conversation. Can you give an update on that? What engagement has there been?

Earlier, Mick Hogg mentioned that people will not use the trains if they believe that antisocial behaviour is out of control. Is it already out of control?