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Yes, we are back to me, convener.

Alex, you mentioned pay. Can you give us an update on the current status of pay negotiations with the trade unions?

That is very disappointing to hear. Strike action that results in loss of take-home pay for workers is always a last resort. That is a pretty desperate place to be, with the cost of living crisis.

It is worth going over some of the things that the unions have said in the past couple of weeks. Some of the comments predate the ACAS meeting, but let us get them on the record.

Unison said that there has been no meaningful engagement with Scottish Water bosses—which I guess is the people in front of us just now—that there has been a withholding of information from trade unions, and that

“there is a feeling amongst members that Scottish Water bosses are behaving like Victorian Mill owners”.

Those are serious statements.

The GMB says that Scottish Water is acting like a “rogue employer”. It also said:

“It has been astonishing to watch and a masterclass in how to demolish good and productive industrial relations.”

I could continue with more quotations. All that is pretty damning, is it not?

Some of the complaints that we hear are about examples of human waste being overflowed into rivers and on to beaches, even when the system is not under abnormal stress. We have heard about some of the good performance and benchmarking compared with other parts of Britain, but for people in Scotland right now, is there an acceptable level of human waste that could be overflowed in that way? What is an acceptable level to Scottish Water?

That was just an example. You mentioned wind, so do you want to expand on that? What do you think the opportunities might be there?

That is helpful. I have a final question, and I will stick with you, Jimmy. You mentioned KPIs. What metrics and KPIs do you use in assessing investments to support the transition to a circular economy? You just talked about supply chains. Do you look systematically across the supply chain of a project? Does that include looking at things such as the ethical extraction of virgin resources, embodied carbon, biodiversity impact and the circularity of resources? Are you confident that your investment criteria are robust enough to avoid any harm in those areas?

I am not a union negotiator. Given what we have heard about your annual report and your performance—

To build on that, can you say a little more about the key opportunities to integrate circular economy principles across your missions of net zero, improving places and harnessing innovation? Will you look at circular economy principles when you are investing in housing, energy projects or technology, for example?

That was helpful. Before I forget the number, you mentioned that overflows are 91 per cent rainwater, but I am not sure what the total volume is. Can you tell us the volume of human waste that is overflowed?

Good morning. I thank the committee for its on-going work. It has been helpful to see the recent responses from the Scottish Government. Unfortunately, Karen McKeown cannot be here in person today, but her plea is for the committee to keep the petition open, because, in her view and that of many of my constituents, the situation on the front line and in communities is getting worse, not better.

We all welcome the Scottish Government’s on-going interest and commitment. The strategies and frameworks are at a very high level, as they often are, and are fuelled by good intentions, but I am afraid that there is an on-going disconnect, because the resources that we need in our communities for our health services, for local government, which also has a role to play, and for the third sector are not there. The capacity is not there, training has not been kept up to date and the workforce is burnt out.

I was struck by Karen McKeown’s words in one of her submissions when she talked about the time when her partner Luke was in crisis before he died by suicide. She talked about the really hard time that she had in trying to keep him safe. We must consider the impact on family, friends and colleagues.

Luke died at the end of 2017, but, in the few years since then, we have had the pandemic and its impact on citizens in Scotland. Having come through that, people then had to deal and cope with the cost of living crisis. Our public services are on their knees like never before. There needs to be a deep dive into mental health services to understand why so many people are getting to crisis point and why, despite all the good intentions around prevention, the system is not working well enough.

Some voices that could inform that deep dive include those of people with direct experience—those who have been in crisis themselves or have lost loved ones to suicide. We need to hear more directly from those who are on the front line. With respect, I do not mean chief executives and senior people at board level; I mean the people in teams who have caseloads that would simply make your eyes water. Police Scotland also has a big story to tell. Often, when our constituents are in crisis, it is the police who are called and it is police officers in uniform who come to the door. They provide a really important service, but their being called is another sign that the system is not working.

To bring it back to a human level—I am sure that this is familiar to all committee members—I point out that one life lost to suicide is, of course, one too many; we hear too many tragic stories in our own areas of people losing their life. When I go on to my local Facebook groups, I increasingly see neighbours in my community crowdfunding to cover funeral costs for people who have lost their life and have left families behind. I worry about the impact on the children and loved ones who are left behind, because so much trauma is being stored up.

Again, I pay tribute to Karen McKeown. I know from the Government submissions that it is grateful to her for lodging the petition. When the former cabinet secretary, who is now our First Minister, gave evidence to the committee—I have had discussions with him—he was very moved by not just Karen’s experience but her commitment to ensuring that we prevent suicides and prevent other families from going through that pain and suffering.

There is more work to be done. I am pleased that the Government is committed to further monitoring and to doing what it can, but the problems in the health service and society started before the pandemic. We need to have conversations that are quite often difficult to hear with people who are on the front line, working in every part of the NHS. I mentioned Police Scotland, but social workers also have important stories and solutions to share. It is not just about stories; it is about trying to find solutions. We know that, for people who experience poor mental health, there is still a lot of stigma. We know that that interfaces with substance use issues, and parliamentarians care a lot about such issues.

The petition has been on the committee’s books for quite some time, but I know that Karen McKeown and the many people and groups that she is in contact with appreciate it. As we have seen, the experience can differ across the country. We have different models of care. Those are appropriate if they meet local needs, but, too often, people feel as though they are falling through the cracks of a broken system. Basically, there is a postcode lottery across Scotland.

I thank the committee for allowing me to say a few words on behalf of Karen McKeown and my other constituents who have a deep interest in the issue.

What is your understanding of the role that ministers played in setting those deadlines or reviewing those deadlines?